Interesting Reading...

[wasp]

So true. This explains why Zeovit does not work for everybody.

[reef]

Just like any product as it comes down to the experiance and knowledge.

[wasp]

Yes. In fact I don't know why people are trying to catagorise Zeovit as some totally different concept or something.

In fact it is based on sound reef keeping principles and good management. Disposal of waste via bacteria, and a whole host of accepted methods, just a different tack at achieving them. Even the use and benefits of iron dosing are becoming more understood these days.

The system is becoming more mainstream all the time.

[RnB]

i agree wasp/reef but IMHO good practice / experience and kowledge would run screaming from a system where the marketer does not tell you why or how it works... now that is a personal opinion only!

how could you have konwledge in this case?

you are allowed to have different ones!

[wasp]

Actually I'd agree with you Peter and that did slow me from trying the system.

But really, the system is quite well understood, it is just the various "conspiracy theories" around it that keep muddying the waters.

[RnB]

wasp please tell me actually whats happening in your tank and how?

I don't believe its agrred and known what is actually happening in a zeo tank, and what each component of the system is and how it works....

or what and how over/under dosing can/will effect the tank.....

[wasp]

You mean how does the zeovit work?

Well as soon as I do that it will just start another big argument, I'd rather refer you back to this article which IMO is a very good explanation of the principles involved http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i3/ze ... ilters.htm

And the author is a neutral person who does not use zeovit.

.

[Pies]

I don't believe its agrred and known what is actually happening in a zeo tank,

I think it is agreed and knows. The water is clearer, the corals are more colourful and grow faster and there is less algae present.

Pies

[RnB]

so a bit of zeolith and some vodka may do the trick......

especially if you could get a handfull of someone elses used media to "seed" bacteria in the reacter?

I would be willing to try that experiment....

[wasp]

Funnily enough Peter, some zeolite and vodka will "do the trick" to a certain extent. The vodka will perform the same function as zeostart, being a carbon source for the bacteria. Costwise though, the vodka will actually cost you more than the zeostart, I know, I've tried it.

To do it right though, you must realise that the extra bacteria generated, will not only remove "bad" nutrients, but also "good" ones. These should be replaced, and so there are two zeovit products used, being Zeofood, and ZeoAA (Amino Acids).

To give it your best shot, use these products also.

But if your goal is simply a roughshod means to reduce nutrients, just vodka alone will do it for you, but in a fairly uncontrolled manner.

[cookie extreme]

have to agree that the ammino acids must do something, as i had some dormant dark looking not at all growing acro's (must admit they are not in the most well lit spot! shortly after starting to use AA and i am only talking days not weeks, growth tips appeared on those acro's and they continue to grow!

[RnB]

you used the zeo AA cookie?

[lduncan]

Sorry Layton, I'm certainly not going to give you money to perform your very risky experiment.

If you are trying to prove your iron theory, and you screw up and kill everything which I think is very likely, why should I have to pay?

Fact is, I knew from the beginning you would never do the experiment, as you know you will not be able to achieve the zeovit effect simply by dosing iron.

Why are you happy to put zeovit zeolite in you're tank when it leaches this amount of iron. Is this not potentially dangerous?

But really, the system is quite well understood, it is just the various "conspiracy theories" around it that keep muddying the waters.

If it is well understood, enlighten us. How does it work. The mechanism should provide reasons for the following:

Phosphate reduction.

Nitrate reduction.

Colouration of corals despite indicators of high nutrients.

Occasional coral losses.

What conspiracy theories are you talking about?

Layton

[wasp]

Why are you happy to put zeovit zeolite in you're tank when it leaches this amount of iron. Is this not potentially dangerous?

Layton

When it leaches what amount of iron? From what I can understand of what you say, you appear to be saying that a zeovit tank has got 200 times as much iron as NSW, added daily.

Of course, your assertion is ludicrous, the water in my tank has nowhere near that amount.

That is why there is no way I would pay for your losses if you were intending to dose that amount into a tank for your experiment. It would be stupidity.

What conspiracy theories are you talking about?

Layton

Conspiracy theories such as the one you propagated a few months back, that the manufacturer was lying about there being bacteria in zeobac.

When you were proved wrong, it was predicted at the time that people like you would just jump on the next bandwagon and critisize something else about zeovit.

This is exactly what is happening now, with your iron bandwagon. I mean, the phenominal levels of iron you are claiming to be present in a zeo tank, would likely kill everything, and your claim defies common sense. My tank is very much alive.

If it is well understood, enlighten us. How does it work. The mechanism should provide reasons for the following:

Phosphate reduction.

Nitrate reduction.

Colouration of corals despite indicators of high nutrients.

Occasional coral losses.

Layton

To answer your question on phosphate reduction, refer to your own previous posts, where you have been forced to admit there are bacteria that can bind phosphate. You have in fact already answered your own question.

To answer your question on nitrate reduction, refer to other similar posts of your own where you have again answered your own question.

To answer your question on coral color despite high nutrients, your question is flawed, I have not seen that I am aware, any spectacularly coloured acros in a high nutrient tank.

To answer about occasional coral losses, stupid question, there are a million reasons people can lose corals, as you would know.

[cookie extreme]

quite honestley i don't care what it leaches, as long as my corals are happy!! which seems to be the case. i have used the zeovit system when it first appeared on the market, with mixed results i must admit. then there was very little info the,whole lot seemed strange at the least, info was a one sheet papper with large print! i stopped using it then after a few months because i could not see a difference. also it was quite expensive shipping it in myself!

but times have changed, zeovit systems have grown (i do not say improved that's up to everyone who wants to use it).

i have seen lots of tanks that use it at the moment and i must say i liked the looks! so i probed into it abit more and found that the whole system has changed a lot since then, there is a zeofood7 out now, i used just the food with no number which means that a lot has changed and most likley will keep on changing in the future.

corals die, most of newly settled small acro's will perish in nature. i have seen it in tonga (200 dives in one year), in the maldives (70 dives in 6 months) and recently in the cooks. lots of small acros just die because they settled in an unfavoured position. most of our corals are just that, small pieces of different acros and yes lots will perish or struggle to survive in our aquariums. i have seen perfect puple/blue/ pink specimens only to see them bleached a few days/weeks later. and this happened regarding temparature!

so to blame coral loses on a systems is narrow minded, what ever system you use you will have loses, some of us are pretty good to keep them at a minimum, but i would like to know the person who hasn't lost a single piece???

iron or not iron, rowa or MM it doesn't really matter that you use as long as your corals look healthy and grow. and if a systems is able to grow corals faster then others (maybe its just survival of the species that makes it grow faster which could well be the case with shallow acros as competition is fierce) then we should be grateful and shar those acros around, i would rather give lots away the have a tank with very slow growing and dull liking stonies in my tank!

[lduncan]

When it leaches what amount of iron? From what I can understand of what you say, you appear to be saying that a zeovit tank has got 200 times as much iron as NSW, added daily.

Of course, your assertion is ludicrous, the water in my tank has nowhere near that amount.

That is why there is no way I would pay for your losses if you were intending to dose that amount into a tank for your experiment. It would be stupidity.

So you've tested your tank? What level did you measure? Clearly you have not read the thread. Lars Sabrella analysis found addition of 200ug/L per day. Habbib has done a less sophisticated test, and although not willing to state exact values found, he has stated that he would easily agree with a value of 20ug/L per day. The concentration in NSW is easily less than 1ug/L (approx 0.3ug/L at the surface)

So you're looking at least 20 times the NSW levels entering you're system every day.

I mean, the phenominal levels of iron you are claiming to be present in a zeo tank, would likely kill everything, and your claim defies common sense. My tank is very much alive.

It's been shown the amount of iron entering these systems is what I have stated. What happens to it and how it is controlled I don't know. Like you said, there are other components to the system. The iron added is significant, and you can not just overlook it. Nor can you assume it has no effect.

To answer your question on phosphate reduction, refer to your own previous posts, where you have been forced to admit there are bacteria that can bind phosphate. You have in fact already answered your own question.

All living things use phosphate. So yes this is plausible. Iron also has a strong affinity to phosphate too.

To answer your question on nitrate reduction, refer to other similar posts of your own where you have again answered your own question.

I think iron may be central to this process when using the zeovit system. So you agree with me now?

To answer your question on coral color despite high nutrients, your question is flawed, I have not seen that I am aware, any spectacularly coloured acros in a high nutrient tank.

Take a look at these photos:

Seems like coral colouration is out of sync with nutrient reduction to me. How do you explain it?

To answer about occasional coral losses, stupid question, there are a million reasons people can lose corals, as you would know.

I wouldn't say it's a stupid question. What you've said is true. Let me rephrase then. Why does the zeoguide have warnings of tissue necrosis when using the system? What causes this reaction?

Iron explains all of these effects. I have yet to see another explanation which covers all of these points. Wasp if you come up with one, I'll gladly add it to my list of possible mechanisms.

Layton

[wasp]

Cookie that was an excellent post.

With your cooperation Layton I would like to put this circuitous argument to bed.

If you cannot, go ahead and do your iron dosing experiment. If you kill everything you will know that is not how zeovit works, you will learn the hard way but don't come running to me to pay for it.

And one correction from an earlier post. In fact I did see some very nicely coloured acros in Reefs tank a while back, at a time when he was running a very high phosphate level. He was not running a zeolite system at the time either, so, it can be done - go figure

[cookie extreme]

Why does the zeoguide have warnings of tissue necrosis when using the system? What causes this reaction?

cigarettes have warnings on them too? does anyone who smokes listens?

do yo buy margerine instead of butter has advised by your health whatever? marg is one step away from plastic and black by nature ( it gets bleached to look nice). at leats zeovit put some warning labels on it unlike many other firms. is this a bad thing? would you still buy your favourite halide if the wrapper would say "may kill corals if used wrongly"?

yes i agree it may be a riskey way of running of tank if you do not follow the guidelines.

ps. i still drink coca cola and they wont tell me whats in it either. :roll:

[lduncan]

cigarettes have warnings on them too? does anyone who smokes listens?

The world is full of idiots.

ps. i still drink coca cola and they wont tell me whats in it either. :roll:

If you read the bottle they tell you exactly what's in it. What they don't do it tell you how to make it.

wasp, in your own immortal words:

It's laughable really, the usual crew of blinker wearing naysayers... ...they can just continue in their ignorance if that is what they are detirmined to do.

If you won't accept that iron is a completely plausible explanation of how zeovit may work, then I really don't know what to say. There is a lot of correlation there.

Layton

[jetskisteve]

THE END

[chimera]

:lol:

[cookie extreme]

bummer got to change channel now to see what else is on. may K1 or thai kickboxing.

lately there is only rugby against those bloody poms, what a waste of airtime!, oops hope i didn't say anything wrong. :lol:

[wasp]

The world is full of idiots.

If you read the bottle they tell you exactly what's in it. What they don't do it tell you how to make it.

wasp, in your own immortal words:

If you won't accept that iron is a completely plausible explanation of how zeovit may work, then I really don't know what to say. There is a lot of correlation there.

Layton

. AAAARRRGHLAYTON

.

[reef]

I suggets everyone read a article in the CORAL mag volume one number 6.

Great article on Iron,

Also mentions that Maybe that iron could help in keeping goniopra corals. Great read.