reef Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 so layton why do't you just put some zeovit rocks into your system and wait and see? if it is just the iron from the rocks and not any of the other chemicals from the zeovit system then you should see some improvements on your brown acro's. this wouldn't reqire any test kits, just some good eye sight. There are many companies selling zeolite for seawater now. Zeolite is a naturaly occuring mineral called Clinoptile, it has a long history in the hobby, Kent Denitrate is also a zeolite. Once you add zeolite the tank goes crystal clear . I beleive that the zeolite will remove nutrients and the zeovit bactaria makes it more effective. Reducing phostphate/Nitrates is not the whole story as i have seen tanks with high phostphates and they still have nice acro colours. Maybe that is why using zeolite is good as it removes other elements/nutrients we cant test for that effect coral colours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 thats all do able, but is there not still a little bit of a debate going around about what long term elevated iron (if indeed its really THAT elevated) will do to your tank........ I can see why bomber goes BB and heavy skimming, massive turnover.... if you could wet skim organics out early then you can achieve the low nitrate levels another way, i wonder how he keeps phosphate low? I guess you could also just use lots of phosphate killer or big water changes.... this debate about zeo has really helped my understanding of water quality etc and refreshed my uni chemistry.... good point wasp about the bacterial system side of it but layton has been going on about metal eating bac's for a while now, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Probably time to post this: http://www.zeovit.com/forums/showthread ... ge=1&pp=15 I had a good laugh at this when I saw it. Apparently i'm 19, a distributor of a competing product, i'm ignorant, i think that zeo doesn't work, and are hell bent on telling everyone it doesn't work. I am closed minded, big headed... wasp, the first post of yours above completely missed the point of the reefcentral thread. Some might say it was a closed-minded assumption. This is what i don't get about zeo people. Just like everyone else, they have no proof of how zeovit really works, yet they are so quick to discount speculation, with no valid challenges which i have seen, while their theories have gaping holes? Then claim that everyone is just "zeobashing" help reduce his high nutrients What are my nutrient levels again? I forgot. Even just the zeolite rocks alone may help his brown acros. How many brown acros do i have? Maybe you can jog my memory on that one too. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 thats all do able, but is there not still a little bit of a debate going around about what long term elevated iron (if indeed its really THAT elevated) will do to your tank........ That is pretty easy, if you have ever dosed iron as I have. Too much iron will cause nice algae outbreak. It will also have other effects. Adding iron does improve coral colours to a degree as using MM has highlighted this for me as it is loaded with iron. That is why the caulpera algae goes ballistic. One thing I notice when using zeo, is when I did not do water changes every week my hair algae in my sump went crazy. So maybe the zeolite does release some iron, who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 So maybe the zeolite does release some iron, who knows. It surely does, and not just some, it's a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I can see why bomber goes BB and heavy skimming, massive turnover.... if you could wet skim organics out early then you can achieve the low nitrate levels another way, i wonder how he keeps phosphate low? I guess you could also just use lots of phosphate killer or big water changes.... That is primarily what the skimmer does, remove phosphates. Nitrate can be processed by live rock. He doesn't use phosphate remover, because of the iron thing. I've been reading more recently on Bomber's methodologies. They are simple and make complete sense. In a sentence, don't let the crap fester and decay in the first place. Get it out before it becomes a problem, then you don't need all these "band-aid" products and methods to achieve results. He also uses UV to keep phosphate (and other organics) unbound, and "simple" so that they are more easily skimmed. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Would carbon remove iron? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 good question re carbon and iron........ post on RC reef and lets hear the chem heads opinion..... i read a lot about bombers setup and thats why i have got my streams.... also have a place for my sand to go he has some cool giant snails... where do i get some from? RnB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Which speciation of iron? Does it need to be chelated? What do you mean by unstable in an aquarium? What if i dose it at a rate base on the study by lars, later confimed by Habib, consistent with the leach rate of the zeovit zeolites? Layton Good idea. Go ahead and try that, I will be interested in the results, however I am pretty confident I already know what they will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 They were questions for you to answer so i can try it. Tell me what you think will happen? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 u / we could try it with a smaller tank, say 80-100L and a brown acro.... just the one acro and then try it...... be a good experiement.... I have spare tanks/skimmers etc no brown acors, only highly coloured orange frag from wasp..... which proves that acros can grow in nutrient rich tanks as mine a shocker at the moment RO/DI issues, better since last 40% NSW change tho..... who purchased the Ro/DI meter thro marine depot? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 who purchased the Ro/DI meter thro marine depot? zat vas me. tds meter to be precise, total dissolved solids. i can loan on trade of nice orange acro frag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 They were questions for you to answer so i can try it. Layton You mean the questions about which speciation of iron, etc? Why ask me, it is you who is making these leaching claims, not me. If you do not know which kind of iron you are talking about, I certainly don't. How about when you find out what it is that you say is leaching from zeovit, then you could go ahead and try dosing it, and we will see if it works as claimed And please forgive my skeptisism, it's just I've been all through exactly the same thing on the zeobac issue with you, and in the end it turned out the manufacturers claims had been correct all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 how do you find it? I really need one myself but just want to know how bad the RoDI is, think membrane may be cooked seems to be too little back pressure.... can you bring it in next week? late in week as in aussie till wed, i cannot give you frag as it is only a frag now, was from wasp, he may have more, its going ok for a guy with high nutrients.... everything seems to love the 400W lights over the 250's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Good idea. Go ahead and try that, I will be interested in the results, however I am pretty confident I already know what they will be. What will be the result, and of what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 What will be the result, and of what? Gosh Layton you do seem to be getting rather muddled. It is the result of the experiment you have offered to do, which was to set up a small tank and dose with whatever you think is leaching from zeovit, to see the effect. But first you will have to figure out what it is you think is leaching from zeovit, no point asking me, I'm just as confused about what you think it is, as you are. You have claimed it is some form of iron, but as you are the one making the claim, you are the one who will have to decide what form of iron you think it is, I really don't know why you asked me for, I wouldn't have a clue. But myself and others do have a genuine interest in your experiment and are keen to see you go ahead with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Peter, is it a TDS meter you want? If so I have one. But you would have to pick up, and return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 / we could try it with a smaller tank, say 80-100L and a brown acro.... What a waste on time. No iron is going to colour up a brown acro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 It will do one of two things depending on the amount of iron. Turn more brown, or bleach. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 And get algae growing. I have added iron before and it sure did not colour up my acros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 I would agree with that, and it shows there is more to the zeovit system than iron. Interesting Reef you found iron dosing fuelled your algae growth. When I went zeovit my algae all died. We would seem to have yet another dilema here for those who think all zeovit does is leach iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 It appears that the system may be centred around iron, and trying to control it's effects. Iron can explain the colouration seen in zeovit tanks. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 Iron can explain the colouration seen in zeovit tanks. Layton Wrong. You dissapoint me here. Based on what you just said about the browning or bleaching effects of iron a few posts back, I thought you were moving along the path to enlightenment here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted June 23, 2005 Report Share Posted June 23, 2005 What a waste on time. No iron is going to colour up a brown acro. Layton what would you think of that statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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