PENEJANE Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 I was considering using a large storage plastic tub for a tank considering that the tank will be in the garage and won't be for viewing and was wondering if this was ok just for plants?? With the right lights and a filter and heater would this work or am I just looking for trouble? Was just thinking that since they are so cheap (cheaper than a glass tank of the same size) it would be easy for me to get a hold of one and spend that little bit extra on the other equipment. Seems as the tank doesn't need to heat up to a high degree would a heater affect a plastic tub? Wanting to get this started asap so then I can start helping out with plants for people Once again is this stupid or would it work. Even if it ment that I had to replace the plastic tub once every 6 months due to wear that don't bother me. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Yeah that should work, heat loss might be a factor though depending on the thickness of the container. A polystyrene container of similar size would do a better job at keeping the heat in, or you could just insulate the plastic container with towels/blankets/whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Awesome **runs off to the warehouse right away** If I can get away with that that would be awesome. Apart from a filter and heater and substrate I should be set Oh yeah lol and a light What kelvin rating would be needed for plants? (hope I got the spelling right there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 More like lights, depending on how deep the tank is as to how many lights you will need, more light better growth. Think i remember someone saying about 6500 kelvin is good for plants, if you are going for a round container it would be better to spread the light out as if it is all in the center the plants will grow towards it. Possibly a hydroponics light with a large round reflector would do the trick, might even be able to pick one up off trade me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 That's true, but keep in mind that you need to increase the co2 and fertilisation proportionally as you increase the lighting, otherwise algae just grows on the plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 nah won't get a round one. Will get a shallow (200mm) square/rectangle one. Guess that would need two fluro lights? Now to get something that will hold the fluro and reflect the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Unless your putting fish in you shouldn't need a filter cause the filters for cleaning the fish pooh and food from the water right? Also you could try putting it on a bench under a sunny window, you might find you get too much algae but it would be worth a try. You will need a heater but make sure it doesnt touch the plasitic side cause it will melt it. For your substrate try using aquadic clay, you can buy it from some plant shops, its used for lillies. Mix it 50/50 with gravel, it will make your water cloudy for a couple of days, and you might get an algae bloom but it will save you having to add fertiliser later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 my 2 cents worth, the bigger the tank the better in my opinion, as with most things if you have a small tank/container yu will end up with stunted plants. you want to make sure you give them plenty of room between plants so that they dont get skinny shooting up competing for the light. why not try running a small tube under the gravel with small holes in to rerlease nutrients into hthe substrate for the ropots to suck up. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Also you should go deeper than 200mm, you will need to put in 100mm or so of substrate. The plants will grow fine out of the water (in fact a lot of commercial growers do this cause the plants grow faster and don't get algae on the leaves (and now you know why they always look so good in plant shops)) but the leafs of plants grown out of water are different (tend to be smaller and thicker) from under water, so when you put them in the tank the out of water leafs die off so they can be replaced with underwater style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Awesome feed back guys really helping a lot even tho some is a little confusing. I did take into consideration the 200mm size but was going to get a tub that allowed 200mm on top of the gravel. I am going to use a Co2 system (even if home made till I can buy a proper one) and get some fert or plant growth stuff for the tank from the pet shop Loving this guys keep it comming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Just a thought on the length of the plastic container.... Remember your standard flouro tubes come in 30, 60, 90, 120 cm lengths John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 thanks for that. I was starting to worry about that hoping to go 60-90cm fluros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 If you get your substrate right you shouldn't need to get fertilizer to add to the water. Most plants get their nutrients via their roots not via leafs so adding fertilizer often just feeds the algae and doesn't help the plant much. I just put togeather a CO2 system for my marine tank. I got an old CO2 fire extingisher from a metal re-cycler $10 (if you can get one the steel ones are more likely to pass certification), he put a new valve in it for $100, cert and filled $45. He also had a secondhand but unused regulator he sold me for $100 (normal price new is around $160), a needle valve $27, tubing I already had and DIY bubble counter. Total cost about $280 with about 10 times the capacity of the purchased systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 For the Co2 system I am just going to do two home made ones for now. It has made a big difference in my own tank so I am sure that 2 of them running in a planted tank would work just as well. With a home made Co2 system, will I be able to connect this up to a filter that had no media in it (used as a powerhead to move the water mainly) would this work to difuse the Co2 better than a bubble bell thingy?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Yep, if you going to put a filter in you might as well put media in it, it can do no harm and will give you a cycled filter to use when you set up your next tank. if your planning on buying a filter to do this, why not just buy a power head. My LFS sells little Jebo ones starting at about $15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 It won't be cycled if she only has plants in it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Well I got the container today. Only $20 for a fiberglass Shub (half bath but base of a shower box) Its a good 400-500mm deep but has a lip to one side so it will be lower and by the time the substrate is laied it will be around 200mm deep of water. This is the best deal that I have come across as we are also able to insulate it by boxing it up (like a free standing spa) and put pink bats inside My next question is....... Do you have to have a cover of glass over the top then lights on top of that? Or can you leave it un covered with hanging lights? I can get glass eventually for it but it will be a while as I will be needing some good legenths and good thickness so it will hold the weight. I will measure it up later to find out roughly how much water it will hold so you can help me figure out what wattage heaters will be required for this. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 No Glass (or lid) would mean the water is constantly evaporating and you will be refilling it all the time and (depending on the temp of your water) all the insulation around the outside will be of little value as most of the heat will simply escape out the top.... Have you thought of using acrylic or polycarbonate as a lid?? As this isnt for "show" are you sure you even need a see thu lid? If you install all your lights in a hood you could just put it over the tank? Insulate the hood with something like foil backed house insulation and you get a refelector too. Could probably use that insulation around the shub as well? (Stuff i am thinkin of is like the "hot water cyliner wrap") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 yeah my husband said that we can use the hot water wrap around the whole tub but I am not to sure about the hood as such yet and how difficult it will be to make and hold 2 60cms fluros. What about perspecis?? Would a sheet of that do for a lid and to get something to put the fluros on and just sit them on top like people do with their fluros sitting on top of the glass ?? I hope I am making sence here lol I keep losing myself :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Easiest way to do the tubes.... Go to rexel buy a flouro baton fitting, they hold 2 tubes, if you want you can buy a reflector too that will hold the tubes up off the top. All you have to do is wire in a 1 or 2m cord to the pre-wired batton fitting ( you will need electrical knowledge / a sparky mate / or pay a sparky to do this) Let me know I can get you part numbers.... How many watts you planning on running? If you are injecting CO2 and fertilising etc low light could be a limiting factor...On my 250ish litre tank i am running 180W (6x3foot tubes) on my new tank I will be running 6x58W tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 I have no idea what size the tub is exactly untill its measured up. The Co2 is going to be home made with the yeast method for now. I was looking at two 60cm fluros. Is there anything on trademe as to what you are talking about as I have no idea lol. Husband is a plumber so he should be able to get a sparky to do it for us if he doesn't do it himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 OK, your sorted then... best bet ask your hubby to ask a sparky about a batton fitting... You see them all over the place, in offices, warehouses garages etc... Cheap as chips... While your onto the sparky ask him to get you some decent tubes, I use osram biolux 965 and daylight 865 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Ok I got the husband to measure it and found out the ltr size of the tub. It will hold up to 260lts. With that what wattage heater will be required and would two 60cm fluros be ok?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiverJohn Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Well... in my humble opinion. As the tank will be well insulated you could probably get away with 1 small heater (all sorts of arguements for an against 1 or 2 heater etc...) But lights wise i would say you are "quite a long way" from having enough light, but that depends on the plants etc... What are the dimensions? The general rule of thumb is something like... up to 0.3 Watt per litre = low light 0.3-0.6 Watt per litre = medium 0.6+ = high. But like i said, depends on the plants... also watts for $$ you may find the 2 foot tubes are actually more expensive than 3footers and 3 footers are not much cheaper than 4 footers. There is not really a constant $ per foot! As most offices and commercial fittings use 4,5 and 6 foot tubes hence they are the most competitivly priced. Hope that helps. John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PENEJANE Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 With the lights. If I get a kelvin rating of 6500 and depending on legenth where would I be able to get them from?? I am guessing from the fish store they would be very high in $$. What about the likes of a lighting store or Mitre 10?? I am guessing two 100-150 watt heaters should be enough but correct me if I am wrong. I am not to sure how well insulated it will be but thats the next thing on the list. I have the tub now to get it insulated Once that is sorted then it will be a cover to allow lights fitted or to sit on top Going to be a slow process but hoping it will be awesome when fully running Cheers for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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