creative Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Hi, I'm making the leap from freshwater malawi to saltwater reef - I want to play with my small 80L tank before spending huge $ on a large one. I know my basic setup will limit me on what I can keep - but my main consideration at the moment is what kind of filtration? I have a Aqua clear 150 (hang off tank) and need to change to either a sump trickle filter or perhaps Aqua oneCF500 canister - sumps kind of scare me - they look and sound a bit complicated and I find it hard to believe it will be cheaper than the canister - however - if they are that much better, I'm willing to learn what I need to to set up an overflow style trickle filter - thoughts and suggestions are very welcome. I'm patient and like to do things the right way first time. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Trickle filter, canister filter have no place in the modern reef aquarium when used as filtration.. Just need a good protein skimmer and lots of base rock. If you dont want a sump then get a good hangon skimmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 i have 2 EHEIM Professionel canisters 2028 running my marine tank with no worries been going for 5 years now with 7 fish and 2 clams and some other bits all levels 0 PH 8.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Trickle filter, canister filter have no place in the modern reef aquarium when used as filtration.. That is just not true because it depends on what he wants to keep and how much access he has to water for changes. Just need a good protein skimmer and lots of base rock. There is nothing modern about this method it's decads old, but it can be very affective. creative Are you planning on using ASW or FSW, if FSW do you have easy access to the ocean so you can do regular water changes. I don't mean to be rude but what is your budget, it would be easier for us to reccomend things if we know what you have to spend. sumps kind of scare me - they look and sound a bit complicated and I find it hard to believe it will be cheaper than the canister Sumps are easy. The advantages of a sump are increased water capacity which makes conditions more stable and more area to place more gear out of the tank and in the sump which keeps the tank for what you really want to look at. However for an 80 litre I would keep it simple if you plan to advance further. If we can work out the best system in your budget we can also advise on what can be kept in it and the difficulties related to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 ASW or FSW ??? you mean NSW? or is that fresh seawater dont be put off by a sump. i wouldnt be without one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Okay, I'm starting to realize that there are many different ways to skin a cat (or set up a tank). I'm going to slow down and do lots of research. I have decided to go with a sump because I love the idea of having the equipment out of the main display - I'm planning to make it myself which is a bit intimidating but I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually. I'm looking at using PowerCompact lighting because Metal Halide are too expensive for me at this stage. I'm investigating building my own hood and putting in four PCs - I'm really not sure of possibility of this but will keep researching. I will probably have a skimmer - but possibly will have a go at making a small one myself - I've found lots of DIY sites. Once I have a clearer picture of just what I'm going to do, I'll prob start a new thread plotting progress. Just one question - alot of international sites talk about live rock - do we get that in NZ? If not what do we do? Another question - Whats the proper code of conduct of this site - should I be posting on the beginners section or is saltwater where I should be? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 i think best to post here on saltwater. we cant get imported LR (live rock) your best bet is to buy dead rock from your LFS (local fish store) and then buy some LR from someone who is breaking down your tank. the LR will then 'seed' the LFS rock by populating it with the good bacteria. it will take sometime for your new tank to cycle - patience is required! you dont mention where you are from, if in auckland contact jetskisteve for live rock. going rate is typically around $10/kg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 mhs are about the same price as PC lighting in NZ there are more people using halides than PC so there are more bits and peices around ive got a 150w arcadia unit you can buy if interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 How wierd, I was posting while you guys did - just got your comments now. I assume ASW is artificial - and thats what I'm planning to use. I'm in West Auckland and can't be bothered going out to Bethells Beach all the time. (this is assuming I don't have to do weekly water changes - I may change my mind if too expensive) Not rude at all - it makes sense to know what budget I have. Basically I can buy equipment that I really need - it's not that I can't spend the money - just that I shouldn't (saving for home). I also love a challenge - and DIY is usually the way I go because I'm a fussy begger and like to have things done just the way I want them. I have tank & stand (DIY), have HOB filter (not planning to use this at all for aesthetic reasons, and prob useless for marine), have heater, have air pump (use this for brine shrimp), have 45cmx25cmx25cm tank (poss sump), have 2xflorescent tube lights my current understanding is that I need the following equipment: 2 powerheads refractometer or hydrometer protein skimmer (poss DIY) sump & overflow (DIY) some form of return pump for sump either another set of 2x florescents or go to power compacts. I clearly need to do lots of research into each thing. Getting quite excited about planning this tank - feels the same as when I first started fish keeping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Interesting on your comment on MH being same cost as PC - this I did not know. My current belief is that MH is more complicated to set up (more factors to consider). Please excuse my ignorance if I'm wrong - I'm trying to catch up on knowledge. Perhaps I should be deciding between florescents I already have half of or MH and forget PCs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Planing is defently fun. As for lighting DIY is a lot cheaper especially if you know an electrician that can get a deal or two . i was working out lighting the other day and i agree with Brian that MH aren't that much more then Fluro's and the running costs aren't that much more either when you work out numbers you need in fluro's compared to MH the total costs and running costs aren't that much more if any more at all. But another note to add is what are you planning on keeping? in the way of corals or are you going fish only? Fish only fluro's are fine, if you want soft corals fluro's may do depending, but if you want hard corals like Acro's or want an anemone (with clown fishies) then your better off going MH's. just something to think about. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 DIY, now your talking. Most of my systems are DIY Go here for MH in NZ http://www.yellow.co.nz/site/radiumlighting/index.html deal direct with them. The link to the main site with the info is http://www.radium.de/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Here's my DIY MH, it's a 150w MH with a Sylvania 10000k lamp, osram electronic ballast,and a Luminia DL-150 housing, it ways a total of 1.7Kg. i took this to the reef meeting and most people seemed very surprised in the weight and light output of the unit. Cos i'm in the trade the unit cost me under $290 for the lot, i can't remember the price of a double 4' fluro unit at the LFS? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 I would suggest not DIY'ing a skimmer. It is one of the most important parts of the system. Lights are the big thing which can benefit from DIY. They're damn expensive if you're looking in petshops. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Also, you should be warned, 80 litres is a very small tank for a beginner to setup a marine tank. It will be a steep learning curve. If you can, start with a larger tank (think 4'). I can guarantee the chances of success will be much, much higher. Smaller volumes of water mean that water parameters such as salinity, pH and general water quality chance much faster. Good water quality and stability is key to keeping fish and corals alive, and happy. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Layton is right about the size of the tank however it is easy to do a skimmer if you can follow instructions. There is plenty of info out there and I can send you some that I have found as well Skimmers don't have to be the best for a basic setup, you need to decide what size tank you want to start with. The bigger the total capacity of the sump and the tank the better if you want to keep the more sensative inhabitants. But these are not for a beginner to keep. If you want to stick with the 80litre tank I suggest you do a search for "nano reef tanks" in google or similar and see what others that have done them have to say. Start here http://www.nano-reef.com/ I have done a few with many differant approaches in filtration and found that they were all easy to look after and very succesful as long as you keep the appropriate inhabitants in the tank and are realistic about your expectations for the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Hey Kermit, I know an electrician... am thinking very hard re: MH versus PC - I looked at my LFS and a PC unit was alot cheaper than $290. I did know that PCs would limit me to polyps & mushrooms. I'll either buy a PC unit to go with my current 2tube florescent or go with the DIY MH (depending on Husband), anenomes are beautiful. As for fish - 1 or 2, maybe none. Thanks very much for the pic - pictures speak a thousand words. What sort of MH output would you suggest for my 2' ? Cheers for the link control... Hey Iduncan, I know I'm taking off a large bite to chew in the 80L but I've been keeping freshwater for about 5 years now - I know marine is different but I plan on doing my homework before any salt hits my tank. Unfortunatly the 4' just isn't an option for me... I appreciate your words of wisdom. I've been looking at a nanoreef website which has really helped - any info you could send me control would be very welcome. I'm definatly with the 80L - and will only keep hardy stuff to start with. Any pictures or diagrams of sump/overflows would be wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 I just thought you should at least be told once about the tank size, just so that you know. But if you're up for the challenge then definitely make sure you do a lot of reading. Other things to note on a tank that small is that you will not be able to keep any sort of anemone, they are too big. As far as fish go, tangs, angels, butterflies, anthias are all out of the question. Fish which you could keep include clowns, gobys, chromis, dottybacks, cardinals, blennys, firefish. So you're stocking options in terms of fish is quite limited. In my opinion there is only one way to setup a tank and that is with plenty of "live" rock, and a good skimmer, shallow sand bed vacuumed regularly. If you go with metal halides, you could probably get cheaper if you went with a magnetic ballast instead of an electronic one. A single 150Watt would do a 2' tank. Another option for lighting on a tank that size is T5, which would also allow you to keep most inverts. And in case you are short of anything to read, checkout www.reefcentral.com Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Creative, how deep is your tank going to be? Do you know what your going to keep in the way of corals? if your going to keep leathers then fluro's/PC's would ok aswell its just if your going to go for anemones or acro's then MH are a recomendation. If your going to go for a MH then 150w will be ampil i have two 150w over my 4' tank and they do well, you can defently do it cheaper then the $290 that i spent as standard ballasts for 150 are around 65-85 depending on type some come with built in starters and some external starters, Brianemone you had a post on cheap 150w MH are they still avalible? The lamps are ussually the exspensive part funny enough. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 True Layton no ones mentioned T5's have they another option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Hi, my tank is 39cms deep. I'm going to leave the lighting debate for a while until I know more exactly the corals I'll be keeping (this will help me in my aquascaping of rock too), can anyone suggest a really good book on coral keeping i.e. light requirments, ease of keeping, etc.... But what is a T5? Those articles on lighting for corals were really informative, showed up just how much I need to know what I'm keeping whilst doing setup. My main concern is making the sump, overflow & plumbing correctly. Is there a club I could join in Auckland? My hope is to be able to have a really good look at current sump & overflow setup before I even attempt making one. Wet carpet is not cool. I believe that you cannot glue acrylic to glass - but I would find working with acrylic much easier, is this true? Thanks so much for all your advice guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 14, 2005 Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 I believe that you cannot glue acrylic to glass - but I would find working with acrylic much easier, is this true no it's easily done. i've done it without any problems. gluing acrylic to acrylic is (apparently) much more difficult though. that depth is easily 'penetrated' to the bottom with T5's or M/H. personally i'd look at 150W's (or 250W) for that depth. likely to be the most cost effective. T5's are just powerful fluoro's. The '5' dictates the size of the tube - eg: T5's are smaller than T8's which are smaller than T12's etc. here's a good site on them: http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/nlpip/lightingAnswers/lat5/abstract.asp if you go m/h (metal halide) then W (wattage) is the power of the bulb while the K (kelvin) is the colour temperature of the bulb. typically the lower the K rating the more yellow, the higher the K the more white/blue. Go minimum of 10K on reef tank. it seems most settle on 12K or 14K these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted June 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2005 Good news about gluing acrylic to glass - do I use silicon? What do I use (obviously it needs to be non toxic). Thanks. I've been looking at all the threads with DIY sumps - slowing getting a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 silicon = silaflex fosroc rtv (clear ONLY!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted June 15, 2005 Report Share Posted June 15, 2005 corals by eric bourneman is a good book on coral requirments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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