SAFFABOY Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I've been watching my discus all day- pottering around the tank all day.I noticed one of my young discus gasping around near the surface.He then started just floating around the tank,no propulsion,just going with whatever flow was in the tank.Then he started upside down movements while still giving the odd fin movement.An hour ago we found him now lying on his side ,on the gravel-still alive.He has now died. I did a water change when i saw him gasping...plenty of air. Now a previously good looking discus of same size and type is going down fast too! All my water parameters check out. What do i do?? ANOTHER water change now? Separate him into a bucket with ALL new water? I dont want the rest of my discus to go this way over night. Any help???PLEASE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billaney Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 have you added anything to the tank ? plants , cleaned the filter or anything that could have caused the tanl parameters to change at all , even if they still seem ok ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 What are the parameters ? How old is the tank ? How long have you had the Discus, How old are they ? What tank mates are in there with them ? Is the tank bare bottom or gravel ? How often and how much water do you change ? Have you ever treated for gill flukes and or internal worms ? Please answer all of these for more help on the subject. Thanks Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAFFABOY Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 NO,i've changed nothing today at all.I was buggering around with the new piping i'm fitting to the tank ,but non of it is connected to the tank yet. I did feed ox heart three times this week,never quite got around to doing a water change though.I didnt think it too serious,considering it was almost all gone by the time it hit the floor.Then i also have four cory's to clean the remainder. I'm really gutted.The neons and pearl gourami's look fine.Hell the other discus look fine ,but then again so did the second dying one ,when the first was dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 How many discus are there what are the size differences ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billaney Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 sounds like quite a few fish in with them , any added recently ? and again what size tank ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAFFABOY Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 AMMONIA 0 PHOSPHATE 0 PH 7.4 GH 40 KH 20 NITRATE LESS THAN 5MG/L NITRITE LESS THAN 3 MG/L TANK RUNNING 2.5 MONTHS Only had the 7 discus 1 week.They average about 1.5 inch without tails.Dont know how old. There are two dwarf gouramis ,15 neons and 4 corys with the 7 discus. gravel bottom water changes of 25% twice weekly,BUT never did a change this week. Never treated for any diseases. tank is 920x420x420 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billaney Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 your reading look fine BUT if you have only had them a week the reading could be dramaticly differant to the water they were in before and that "shock" could be whats the problem . Is there any way you can get the reading from the water they were in ? from shop or previous owner ? then slowly try and replicate those readings and again slowly bring them back to your readings , the key is SLOWLY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAFFABOY Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 The thing that stresses me out is that they suddenly just acted up like that...IN FRONT OF ME. The only test i did was of ph and the bloke had them on a ph of 5. That's quite some jump.No matter what i did there was no way i could get them to acclimatise THAT quickly to a ph of 7.4 from 5. Do you rate i leave them in the tank and hope for hell they survive the night or separate them all(discus) into a bucket etc. I dont have anything to lower ph on me and its like 10:30 at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Ok then. Temp should be 28-30 (increse the temp to 30, when there is sign of disease or infection ADD AIR STONE) Ph 6.2-7 depending on source NH4- zero NO2- zero NO3- Zero Neons and gouramis are not suitable tank mates IMHO, Neons will not handle the higer temp so its unfair on them. Try Black Neons instead. Gouramis not suitable except for maybe chocolate gouramis and even then not really. Discus will establish a pecking order so you need to constantly keep an eye on the runts. You shoud be changing 20-30% three times a week minimum You should treat them for gill flukes, use fluke tabs, CAUTION this product is poisonous to all catfish ie cory's plec's and b/noses but not Otto's You should worm all your fish every 3-6 months, use drontal 1x 10kg dog tablet crushed and placed in 20 lires of aquarium water in a BUCKET catch the fish leave in the bucket for 45-60 minutes then catch them out and put back in the tank After half an hour top the tank back up. Repeat in 7 days if severe infection is present. Again you need to answer our questions Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billaney Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I'd leave them tonight , if you move them to a bucket that will only add to there stress and unless you got a 2nd heater you'd be pretty much unable to keep a stable temp for them. What temp have you got the tank ? Dicus need a much higher temp than the other fish in there ...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAFFABOY Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 The tank has been at 26 since i started it.It did drop down a frction when i did that water change today.It's back up to 26 now.I'll change it to 30deg now though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 There is no way your Kh should be 20 if so there is a big problem with the tank. Kh should be 2-3 for Discus Your tank in all honesty is a bit young for your first attempt with discus and the nitrite must be zero Have they been eating, are they on the same food as where you got them from ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Also if you want them to strive (providing they are quite young) get rid of all the gravel and plants. Keep the tank bare bottom for 6-12 months. GRAVEL syphon all the detritus while doing a 20-25% water change daily Then make the tank awseome once you have big boty fish down the line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 PS good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAFFABOY Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 My KH test is the hagen test.I put in two drops to get it to turn yellow.They say you then times that by 10 to get a reading.Mine was 20. My nitite was below the reading on the test.It stayed clear .The test starts on 0.3mg/l ,which is a light pink colour.Well,mine was below that ...maybe a zero reading then?? I've kept discus before in south africa ,so this isnt a first time discus keeper.Just never had this problem before. I rate it was probably temp,and other water parameter differences from supplier to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAFFABOY Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 yeah they've been eating really well.I've fed ox heart three times and this morning they even ate out of my hand! That's why i'm so cheesed off and frustrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Leave them for the night, add an air stone if youve got one. They will handle a Ph shift like that if ou are very carefull acclimatising them. What are your tap water readings ? If your tap water comes out at 20Kh + 40Gh you need to get hold of an Ro/DI unit if it comes out low. then its great and you have the wrong gravel/rocks in the tank. Stable Ph is maintained buy a high Kh, so if you lower your Kh GRADUALLY down to say 2 then your water will become softer and acidify easier. I have a low Kh 2-3 but my Ph is 7.2-7.4, This is because i have bare bottom tanks and change 30% twice a day, my discus love it and breed all the time. HTH Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAFFABOY Posted June 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 I'll have to look into these tap water readings. Thanks for all your help.I really appreciate it. Rory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted June 11, 2005 Report Share Posted June 11, 2005 Double check the test instructions, if it goes yellow after two drops sounds more like your Kh is 2, the times ten maybe to convert the result into another reading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billaney Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 Hi Saffaboy how did they go over night ? any progresse with settling them down ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 12, 2005 Report Share Posted June 12, 2005 Hi Rory, give me a call I have the new tanks going if they need a temp home. Do water change Na could have been the problem I had with mine and I've cut down my feeding. You've seen my 3 in a mixxed tank feed bits and flake so this shouldn't be a problem. Try some peat and water change is only thing i could say. 0274 326 199.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAFFABOY Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Hey guys,well update on my discus disaster. I ended up losing three of my new young marlboro reds .The last one of the four is perfectly fine as is the other three turquiose. I have no idea what went wrong. Brian what is na- is that nitogen? I'm split between two theories for their demise. 1.The water parameters from supplier to my tank was too stressful and it eventually caught up with them after a week.However i find it difficult to believe they were too stressed out .I mean after all they were eating ox heart out of my hand that very morning. 2.I think Brians theory of over feeding might have hit it on the head.I was slack in not doing a water change that week- no excuses. I suppose you live and learn.I'm gutted at the moment.I have no interest in the tank at present.Lost a bit of my motivation. Thanks for everyone's advice and help. Regards Rory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK Posted June 13, 2005 Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Na 3 is on the test bottle I'll check tonight. I've 100ltr of peat if you want some no charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAFFABOY Posted June 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2005 Thanks for the offer brian.I've also got a mini bale of peat here. I'm just finishing off my new plumbing on the tank and then i'll hook up the peat again.It was getting in the way before. About three weeks ago,i had the peat on the tank and it definately did drop the ph.It also made the tank real yellow.However i dont have my lights attached yet,so it probably looked worse than it should have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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