Plant tanks....

[PENEJANE]

I am looking into setting up a reasonable size tank with just plants to trade and sell via trademe and the forums here. But before I go into pocket over it I was wanting to know the depand for them and what type of plants. Just looking at a way to help people out (expecially new to the fish world) and making a little pocket money for myself (husband and kids not included )

So let me know your ideas and depending on how things go I am hoping to have it set up as free postage (bonus for all)

Cheers

[MicB]

Hi from Taupo

I have a lot of trouble trying to get short plants for the front of the tank.

Can get plenty of big ones for the back. I only use fluroish and plant food so have got cambodia(spelling) and twisted val at the moment that handles the condititons.

I have some raccia coming next week so will see how that goes with flurish. Just cleaned out a heap of java moss it was always very dark. Not sure if this was a result of using only flourish.

It will be good to get some data on plants that grow well with flourish if people do only use this rather than c02

Thanks Mike

[PENEJANE]

I am guessing I am going to have to use some chemicals to get the plants growing good due to the fact that there won't be any fish in the tanks. Just plants. I don't know when I will be setting them up yet as it all depends on the expence of getting the parts. I also don't know how well this whole idea will go but I will give it a shot

The plants that I do will depend on what I can get my hands on to start off with and how quickly they grow to get cuttings and get them to grow roots so I end up with a good thick supply (no point growing the one plant to keep taking cuttings off or I won't have much to hand out will I lol)

Glad to hear your comments tho. When things are started I will let you know how the plants respond to what chemicals. Hoping to not use any apart from fert and Co2 and some good lighting.

[steve slack]

why not add a few fish?just afew livebearers or danios.

free fert

[Billaney]

Hi Penejane

I'd me more than iterested in good sized Java fern and sword plants as i think a lot of people would be maybe that would be a good start.

Good luck , a little pocket money from this hobby would help cover some of the expences , ie Power bills ...

[steve slack]

were you thinkin of havin any type of filtration?for current as some plants require a bit of current

you could get some cascading tanks made up for this

[PENEJANE]

Billany due to not knowing what most plants look like it will be a while before I get it going good enough to help anyone. Any clippings (once tank is up and going) from others would be a great help to get variety and stock going. I won't be adding any fish as it won't be heated. The fish store don't heat their plant tanks and all do fine but I will have a good Co2 system and add fert to help them blossom

Husband seems keen to let me do this which is an added bonus

Hoping to keep it snail free so I will have to find out what chemicals are safe for plant clippings and what not to keep the snails at bay.

Love your guys intrest and ideas

If you want to help speed up the process... if anyone has any old filters about that they want rid of please let me know and maybe a light or two (depending on what size tank I manage to pick up) with out a bulb as I will get that sorted

Cheers guys

[Shilo]

Hi PeneJane,

Heres some money saving ideas:

Lighting on the cheap.

To grow plants at a fast clip (xcuse pun) you will need 2.5 to 4 watts of fluorescent light / gallon. If you went for the $$$ grow tubes from the LFS you will be looking at 3-5 tubes for a 3 foot 160ltr tank. But another way is to get those energy saver bulbs that are used around the house to replace the normal incandescent bulbs. An 18w bulb can be picked up for $5 - $7 each. 7 of these will give you 3watts / gallon in the above sized tank. The fittings are around the same price.

Not all energy saver bulbs are equal. Those high priced specialised bulbs from the LFS are priced this way because they are "brightest" in the spectrum colours that the plants use. They may look a bit dull to our eyes but plants love them. For energy saver bulbs you need to find a brand that covers a wide range of the spectrum so the plants get the type of light they need. The majority of them don't have a high enough Kelvin rating and the light they produce has a yellow tint to it. Look for one with a Kelvin rating of 56000 or more (pref 64000+) but unfortunatly most don't list the kelvins on the box A rating this high will look like "white" light to our eyes rather then the yellow of an incandescent.

The best I have found is also one of the cheapest. Placemakers sell a brand called Rapid. Have used these for the last 2 years and each bulb normally lasts between 6-9 months.

The advantage of having many small wattage bulbs over a few large ones is that you can replace them for minimal cost and not be hit with a big bill every 6 months (the recommended time a specialised bulb should be replaced in).

Filters

May not be needed in a plant only tank. A power head will move the water around more then a filter can. But if you do get a filter then steer clear from hang on the back ones or any type that will case surface distruption. Any break or movement in the water surface will case you to loose C02 from the tank.

Fish

Rethink this. A few Bristlenoses or/and siamese algae eaters will keep both the tank and the plants clean of algae. Neither of these should harm you plants to any extent that matters.

Snails

By sterilising any plants before putting them into the tank, snails should never be a problem. But if they do get introduced borrow a Loch (Clown, Skunk etc) from your tropical tank and they will soon end the snail problem.

Temperature

Tropical plants are called tropical for a reason. Some will grow in temps lower then 20C but most will thrive at 24 to 27C. If you don't plan on heating the tank then choose the plants carefully.

Substrate

Now we really get onto a touchy subject Plain gravel will work but its not the best. Gravel has a very low CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity) rating. Clays and soils are much better but very messy. See http://home.infinet.net/teban/substrat.htm#Submerged_Soil_Properties

for more technical info then I can get my few remaining brain cells around.

Now comes the "touchy" bit. I like Kitty Litter. And no used kitty litter is not the best! Again the cheapest is the most suitable. Woolworths and Foodtown sell a brand in a red bag (forgot the name). This stuff doesn't dissolve to mush when wet and doesn't contain any perfumes or additives. The type of clay it is made from has a very high CEC. Rinse it then layer it on the bottom of the tank and put about 2" of 2-3mm gravel on top. It will eventually get mixed up but even then it will still hold the plants and won't cause a problem in the tank.

Anyway hope all this helps. There are many opinions on what is best for a planted tank, the above is just mine.

[PENEJANE]

Awesome Shilo. Very good info indeed.

So in basic I don't really need a filter?? Just something that will blow a current in the water with out moving the surface??

I don't have any worries about the price of power as this tank will end up in the garage (hence the reason for plants only and no fish as lights will be on a timer) and with this weather it will get quite cold but our garage is hooked up on a seperate power meter which is never read ( it doesn't exist ) so its free power WOOO HOOO.

I have never heard of kitty litter (yes I know what brand as I used to get it for our cat) being used in a tank but will consider it. I was just going to use a sand type substrate for the whole tank.

I wonder if because the plants that are available to me from the fish store are in cold water if thats why most die in my tank? Guess I will have to consider a heater as well (will be asking more info on what size tank = what wattage heater later) to keep the plants at their best.

I know this is going to cost a bit to set up as I don't have anything to start with but hoping to find some second hand bits about which will make things easier or for a huge sale.

Thanks for the info I shall keep comming back to this so I get it right and provide the best I can for people needing/wanting plants

Cheers again

[Shilo]

If you still do water changes then Yes, I don't think filtration will be needed. Worst comes to worst and the water looks a bit cloudy then a simple internal sponge filter (even homemade) will work well enough.

Water changes

Why do water changes in a plant only? Simple it saves money on buying test kits. You will need to experiment at first to get a feel on how much ferts the plants are going through in a week, and here a test kit could be handy (Nitrate & Phospate mainly) but once you know the plants are going trough X amount of KNO3 etc a week then you can stop testing and just add this much each week (best added every 2 days until X is reached). But a tank never stays the same and micro ferts are hard to test for. To avoid any large buildup of one nutrient or the other that could cause algae or stop the plants uptaking another nutrient you simply set the conditions to zero each week with a simple water change. No more testing! PH will still need to be read but a PH test kit is dirt cheap.

Heating

Go for a heater. In fact get really fancy and go for an under tank pad heater. Never used one of these but its meant to produce a slight water movement through the substrate keeping it aerobic and slowly releasing the nutrients from the substrate into the water column. Could be home made, being a plumber your husband may know of a electrician willing to wire one up.

I think temps are important since I'm currently slowly turning my tropical tank into a coldwater native. Its about 1/2 and 1/2 at the momement and still full of Anabus, Java Fern, Crypts, Java Moss & water sprite. Because it has some native fish in it its being run at a max of 18C. Some of the plants are hurting bad. The Anabus (previously flowering) and Java ferns are only just holding their own, not growing but not dieing off, the Crypts had a growth spirt then started to melt, the water sprite and moss are the only things ok with the low temps. So a few deg can make a difference.

Beware of only sand for a substrate. If to fine it can compact and become anerobic (smelly).

Things can be done on the cheap and just as well as buying $$$ commercial products. Above is a pic of the tank in its hayday (since got lazy and went low maitenance).

And one of it a just after setup. Total cost including fish and plants under $300.

[PENEJANE]

With the under tank heating pad thingy how would that work?? Won't it melt the poly that you put under there? Or does it go inside the tank with substrate on top??

If I am going to do this I want to get it right as soon as possible to make it affective

Once it is sorted, I will be looking at doing $10 lots (postage included) which will have a mixture of plants in it and if you are to be after a spacific plant then you will get 2 free

To get a variety of plants I am going to have to spend a bit of $$ to get them all from front low plants to the big tall, big leafed plants and also some floating plants.

The cost is to mainly pay for the Co2, Fert, and more plants if needed.

Just so you know the $10 bag isn't going to be skimpy either. I ain't one to rip people off but also note that half of that is to cover postage.

Cheers for the awesome feed back and info.

[Snowman]

There are 2 sorts of under side heating, one is a pad that sits under the tank and keeps the glass and substrate warm and there is one that goes into the substrate, your LFS may have one or both of these but not real cheap to buy, from memory an in substrate heater for a 3ft tank would be close to $250.

Either one will be better than just having a heater in the tank.

[PENEJANE]

hmmm thats a lot of money. How about if there was to be two heaters in a tank?? depending on how large the tank is of course. I was thinking of getting 3 small tanks (about 30-40 ltrs I think) and cascading them??