bainorama Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 This might be a stupid question, but I haven't found the answer anywhere yet so, Do I need saltwater for the tank to cycle? I've read that I should do an almost complete water change when the tank has finished cycling (before adding fish), so was just wondering if I can skimp on salt mix but not adding it until this point. Also, does the tank need to be heated during the cycling process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 Yes you need saltwater. collect from the beach if u wanna save dosh lots of us do. heating at this time of year is prob a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 hi brian when i set mine up i added my salt took the temp up to 75. cut a hole mussel in half put it in and left it for about three weeks, all sweet put a few clowns in and went from there didnt do any water changes for two months still got my clowns and alot more fish been setup for about 5 years now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeveus Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 Hi there. My tank is still in cycle after 6 weeks. When my tank was first setup, I was told to use the bags of salt provided by the petshop at $25 dollars each . Once a month had passed I done a half water change with NSW and the salinty was excellent. I'm waiting for my fish to arrive next week and hopefully they will go in all good as gold after I've done a full chem check which tested ok. I washed my filter every day after being told to after 3 weeks of cycle, added a protein skimmer which dramatically increased the water quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slappers Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 why wash your filters out ?? you are destroying all the bacteria in them.so they have to start all over again??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 filters (eg: wool based) are different in fresh and saltwater tanks. they tend accumulate detritus which can end up causing a build up of nitrates so regular cleaning is important to flush the crap outta them. (freshwater only should be lightly rinsed and much less often) nthe "good" bacteria you are talking about exists (mostly) in your live rock. a skimmer is most important because it physically exports nutrients from your tank by foam fractionation (sp?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelfish Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 alot of people do a big water change at the end of the cycle to remove the nitrates which have built up. when my tank finished cycling my nitrates were up around 25ppm, i did a big water change (half the tank) to help lower the nitrates. its now been 2 months since the end of my tanks cycle, and nitrates are finally 0! (been doin a 60ltr water change every 2 weeks). also i think the point of cycling a tank is to establish a good quantity of bacteria that can live in your tank. i think if you cycle a tank without salt you will end up with bacteria that live in fresh water, not in salt water. they might all die if you suddenly change the fresh water to salt water. its also a good time to practice keeping the salinity correct. also good to get your tank heated to the correct temp, so you can make sure your heaters working correctly. hope this helps, happy cycling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Nitrates should not be the end product of the cycle. This is one of the reasons why marine tanks take so long to cycle. Accumulating nitrates is a sign of one of two things: 1. Cycle is not complete. 2. Tank bioload is too high or insufficient liverock / sandbed area You really should not do large water changes to reduce nitrates, as your tank will take much longer to build and stabilise the populations of bacteria required to reduce them. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Angelfish - I am not sure if thats true (or if its true its in-accurate). If you do a 50% water change, it takes about 18 50% water changes to reduce nitrates from 20ppm down to under 1ppm. As with what Layton said, if your accumulating nitrates your tank hasn't cycled yet (in which case use your normal water change cycle) or you are over feeding/over stocking your tank. My tanks running 0 nitrates (0 reading from Salifert that is). Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 To answer your question... When your Nitrite and ammonia levels are at zero, (which can take 2 months, so be patient!), a 50% water change is a good idea, as you will probably be reading around 20 to 40 with your nitrates. This will assist to bring it down to about 30. You want to keep doing reasonably big water changes when it creeps back up to 40-45. IMO Dont let it get higher than this. Some soft corals probably will be unhappy! Nitrates are ok in you tank for the first six months so long as you are not putting anything in your tank that requires superb water quality. Most fish will handle and soft corals may actually enjoy the nitrate levels. The only way to then get your levels down without spending heaps of money on apparatus is to put as much live rock in as many places as you can. Anearobic bacteria grows in the rock and reduces nitrate levels enough to start putting in the more delicate things. Fill you tank, your sump and everything else you can. Better to do it now whilst the tank is still cycling really, but not imperative. This anearobic bacteria takes the longest to establish and settle and this is why six months is about right. Every tank will be slightly different of course. HEAPS OF LIVE ROCK!! Hope this helps. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 put a larger clam in your tank as clams will utilise nitrates as food. also i don't agree that nitrates should ever go as high as 40 or more. if thats the case then something is already wrong in the system,also with such high nitrates your hair algae will go mental. just ensure that nitrites and ammo is own to nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Ideally, no...they shouldnt be that high, but its ok whilst the six monthly maturing is taking place...you just have to be watchful. This is a new tank....not really the time to be adding a clam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 oh come on i have added clams and corals at a much earlier age. especialy leathers grew very well. just don't add fish. nitrates come from somewhere they just don't apear from nowhere in a new tank and should be broken down in some form or an other. get some rock and/or sand, water from a friend and you are able to get started within days not weeks. i've doe it for 4 times in NZ without any drawbacks on the other hand what filters are you washing? there shoudn't be really any in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 This person is new to the hobby. everyone knows to be patient whilst cycling. Not everyone new knows people who can give them live rock and sand to start off with. The wise choice is to patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Hey Bainorama, are you using a wet/dry filter and dry rock? What is the system you are running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Yes the tank does need to be heated during cycling; also having you lights on will speed up the process, Once the tank has done the cycle doing a water change is a good idea as the tank will be loaded with organics. Maybe do a 50% water change after cycling and 1 week on do another 20-30% This way you will remove all the nitrates and phosphates/nutrients. Even better cycle the rock in a bin first. Using NSW during cycling is a good idea as it adds bacteria, however using it on going could be a problem unless you get it form up north as I have tried NSW a few times and always get diatoms due to the high nutrients in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 hi bainorama, were are you located? best thing is to go and see someone who has a tank that has been established for a while. get some water (the old stuff from a water change, some sand and a couple pieces of rock. (or give that person some of your rock to be placed in the tank or sump to seed it. getting these items will help you a lot starting up a new tank. this way you will have a mulitude of micro organizsm allready. i've collected over 400ltr for AW so far for his new setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bainorama Posted June 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 hi, I'm in Mt Roskill (just down the road from Hollywood FF). I've setup my sand and rock etc and added half a mussel as suggested by many people. What sort of time difference (to fully cycle) would adding old tank water make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Old tank water will make no difference, its not the water thats cycling (if it was, those that use Natural Sea Water would not have to worry about it) its everything else. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Old tank water will make no difference ever let your fresh NSW stand for a couple of weeks? what do you find on the bottom of the barrel? i pour old tank water into holding tanks with nothing else in it. and guess what lots of little critters poped up and thats only what i can see with a naked eye, how much more is in there is anybody's guess. also will save you some bucks to set up a tank in the beginnig, that if you use ASW of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 As Pie said, Old tank water wont make jack shit of a difference. If you are using dry rock from hollywood, you will need to let all the rotting old carcasses in the rock to break down along with the mussel. This WILL take a long time. Thats just the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 ever let your fresh NSW stand for a couple of weeks? what do you find on the bottom of the barrel? Nothing. Maybee I just have access to very clean water, but NSW left standing in my garage for 2 weeks, 4 weeks and 2 months goes in as clean and clean as the day it was collected, nothing setteled on the bottom thats for sure. That aside, as previously stated, old tank water will not speed up the cycling process, and if it was me, I would take the opertunity for the new fresh clean and crisp water. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 unless you use NSW you will have a very sterile tank for a pretty long time! also you will encounter spikes of ammonia, nitrite and quite a bit of nitrates. taking rock, sand and water from an existing tank will cut this time quite a bit. and it works out a lot cheaper too (something quite a few people in this forum are interested in 8) ) means there is no need to buy all those "starter wonder liquids", also prevents to some extent all the horrible algae blooms that come with a new setup and which frustrates newbees and seasoned reefer. but as always in this hobby there are many ways to get to rome!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 While I dont think 'old NSW' from someone else's tank will make a significant difference, rock and sand from someone else's tank most certainly will. That rock will have plenty of good organisms/bacteria on it that will help 'seed' your new rock. This will help speed up the cycling process as you are introducing larger colonies of good bacteria immediately, rather than waiting for them to multiply. These bacteria will help speed up cycling (breaking down ammonia to nitrite to nitrate then lastly to nitrogen gas) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 breaking down ammonia to nitrite to nitrate then lastly to nitrogen gas. fully agree to that. although the last bit is rarely achived by most. hence quite a few on this forum struggle with high nitrates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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