Aquatopia Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Im intrigued as to the efficiency issues regarding different skimmers. DELTEC use pinwheel or needlewheel technology via the adapted eheim pump on some of their models. The claim is that the pinwheel breaks up the air into many more finer bubbles - thus creating far more surface area for the organic waste to attach to. This makes sense and for sure, the ones I have seen seem to be FULL of air bubbles in the water column. SCHURAN do not claim to use this technology, but are also considered to be at the leading edge. They use counter-current instead it seems. But i saw a small schuran on a retailers tank locally and there didnt seem to be many bubbles at all. So whats the difference? Are any of you using either of the biggies - say the Deltec AP850/1 or the Schuran Jetskim 200 ?? I know i would be happy with the Deltec, but have the opportunity of getting a cheap Schuran now (the Deltec deal fell through as some git got there first, lol) Just wanted some of your expert opinions on the difference between the two technologies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 No comparison, No one really uses schuran for a reason. Deltec will out skim the schran any day. Although the large commercial schurans are good. You pay for what you get. The Deltec will outskim any skimmer you can get in NZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Counter current is the most efficeint way for the water to flow in a skimmer. Pin wheels are the most efficeint way to foam. Aaron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Reef and Control Thanks. So why dont both manufacturers use BOTH technologies? It begs the question - would the Schuran be better than the Deltec if you put a pinwheel eheim on instead of the standard 1260 ??? Would that work? What do you guys think? Ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 It sure will work much better, but the deltec ap850 is 3 times the size of the schrun and to get a needle pump to run the schrun costs over $400 so it would not be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Reef, what would we do without you. Thanks for that. Sounds like the Deltec is the score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Thanks. So why dont both manufacturers use BOTH technologies? OMG, needlewheel and counter current? That'd skim people's faces right off! It'd be the start of the apocalypse! Dunno. I wish needle wheel impellers were cheaper to buy. I think if you could get a good needlewheel pump you could build a big skimmer for really cheap and it should work pretty well because you have the most important part working great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Ira - Can you buy a normal ehiem and then the needlewheel impeller for it separate? Im thinking for people that already have the pump maybe the impeller would not make the whole project that much more difficult. How much are the needle impellers then? (draws in breath before hearing the answer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 I'm not really sure how much the needlewheels are. I saw somewhere just a minute or two ago, but can't find it again, that Deltec swaps the needlewheel impellers for their pumps for new ones if you break it for 45 pounds-65 pounds depending on which. So that's about $120-$170 in that case and likely significantly more if you just want to flat out buyit. There are a few DIY ones around using bioballs, those may be worth a look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 The eheim pumps have also been modified so they can get more air into the skimmer, it is not a standard eheim pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 The eheim pumps have also been modified so they can get more air into the skimmer, it is not a standard eheim pump. Reef - are you referring to the pinwheel impeller mod or is there a further mod too ? Can you buy these pumps separately? Im pretty much gonna go down the Deltec route i think, but its interesting to explore other possibilities. I think the combo of Deltecs pinwheel and Shurans counter current would be an awesome beast ! Incidentally, to be fair to Schuran i think i should have used the APF600 rather than the 850/1 as the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Here is a reply i got from someone in th U.S. who i emailed about mixing a pinwheel pump with the schuran counter-current skimmer which uses venturi for its air supply;- NO! You dont use a pinwheel with a venturi nozzle. Pressure is the key here and pinwheels lose alot of pressure. Pinwheel skimmers are ok when you're worried about electrical efficiency, but there is a reason why you never see pinwheel skimmers on professional models. They just dont mix as much air or make as many bubbles as a good beckett or venturi pressure skimmer. Air is key for removing dissolved organics, the more air the more surface area and bubbles to remove those nasty organics. Observations? (I still think the Deltec is the way to go). Even this person has said air is the key and as air = bubbles, and i have seen more bubbles in a Deltec, then that seems the logical option. Am i missing some point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 I dunno, a lot of the skimmers that use them seem pretty professional to me. And of course, you'd obviously remove the venturi. That'd be just stupid to run both at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Pomereef Are you capable of doing good DIY. There are way around this. Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Ira - precisely. But I think the point they are making is professional as in on commercial setups and fishfarms etc. Who knows. Yes - the venturi would be pointless in its location in respect of where the pump is. Control - yeah pretty good at DIY if i have a fair idea of what im up to. See PM re this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Ah, ok yeah that kind of professional stuff. I think for industrial sized ones like that the needlewheel just doesn't scale up to the necessary size very well. If they're $400 for a moderate sized eheim imagine how much it would be for an industrial sized pump? But then you could just get a nice couple kilowatt water pump for heaps less and run the skimmer through a venturi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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