TM Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Marine setup checklist. Aquaqrium choose your size, equipment will vary with size of tank. Stand wood or metal Lighting fluro lights vho fluro lights metal halide 150 250 or 400w Water movement power heads closed loops 4 way (oceanmotions) scwd tunze Protein skimmer queen $120 crap, but ok for very small tanks red sea $600 - $900 dear for what they do deltec $900 - $heaps by far the best Filtration live rock other @#!@q filters System options UV sterlisers ozone Water prep natural sea water synthetic salt hydrometer refractometre Test kits ph NH3 NO2 NO3 Calicum KH MG and others Temp control glass heater under tank heating temp controller chiller Aquascaping live rock (yes you can't get in NZ, try and find a bit from shops or others tanks) dead rock/base rock coral real or dead background /paint I have tryed to think of everything that you need for a marine fish or reef tank, yeah sure there a other things you can put on later. I think seting up tanks can vary a great detail in price. why not let them (new people) decide if they can afford to buy a queen skimmer of deltec, give advice (pros and cons), But i would say that if you can really only afford a queen skimmer then buy it it is better than nothing. We all want new people in the hobby. I have directed two people in the last three weeks (from chch) to these forums that were looking at starting up a marine tank, money wasn't to much of a problem for them. After seeing what went on in here they have thought twice about coming back and asking qustions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Yeah but 3/4 of ppl stating basic set ups are newbies, no ? the will go straight to the LFS, rather than import. Pretty much all of those ppl dont know of this website nor many other websites plus the best ones are in 120v ie reefs.org reefcentral.com so it is probably more hassle to them. Plus they are getting started in a basic setup, wouldnt we be assuming they are buying this basic equipment locally. Not really - we are addressing this from the viewpoint of putting information for newbies on HERE. So the ones who dont know about this site dont come into the equation. However, if they do know about this site and see the information we post - it should be info in their best financial and operative interests. Its fair to assume that if they have the knowhow to find a www forum on fish, that they are familiar or at least able to purchase on the internet too. And certain products come in 240v options on the American sites now anyway (vis Iwaki pumps). And it could be said that if retailers are concerned about customers buying "outside the box" then perhaps they should start stocking those items that are more attractive on the internet. After all - Im sure they could negotiate discounts from the suppliers for buying in "semi-bulk". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Here is my basic reef tank just set up. SO far cost are. tankAr980 $1000 rock $200 skimmer to come. Deltec hangon about $800 heater $30 sand,redsea $100 coral $300 seahorse $600 gobies $100 pipefish $200 salt $100 Total cost so far. $3430 still to be added. iks computer $1000 Tunze turbelle pump $400 controller $300 I have added a quality skimmer as it would really be hard to maintain good water conditions otherwise. The thing to remember, fish/coral will be swimmimg in there own waste so it is important to filter the water well. I like the aquaone tanks. very tidy and cheap. I set the whole tank up in a few hours. HOw does the $500 system people have be quoting compare?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 I'm thinking this is to normaise the price. If everyone quotes retail prices we're not comparing apples with oranges... I could be way off here but since retail is the price the majority will pay, why not use it as the standard. I see what you mean about comparing apples with apples Warren - but retail is retail is retail - whether it be from a retailer in New Zealand or a retailer in America, surely ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 A online shop in not retail, When you go in to a america pet shop prices are more than american online shops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Its not worth the hastle of importing heaters, the saving would not even pay for a pack of cigarettes. However if it was say a $300.00 dollar Ehiem filter or pump that I could have delivered to my door for less than $150.00 - what should I do, buy it from an LFS like yours, or go through the 'hastle' of sending an email and waiting for it to arrive...? Everyone is different, i'd send the email and save the $150.00, but clearly I am in a minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 A online shop in not retail, When you go in to a america pet shop prices are more than american online shops. Yep - you are right Reef - i was thinking ahead of myself. Would there be any mileage in wholesalers bringing in Iwaki pumps so that our LFS can offer them at a reasonable price to try and out-compete say, Marine-depot? or is this just not feasible? Rather than saying retail is retail is retail - I should have said the only comparible price is the one you can get the product for (in terms of the consumer). I realise this is not the case for the retailer or wholesaler, but at the end of the day - folk are gonna try and find the best price, and the purpose of this thread is to advise FNZAS members of the best way to set up their aquarium. If that means that some items will be sourced at places other than the LFS then so be it. Thats the way it works now. What we should do is give them ALL the options, along with the pros and cons of buying from your LFS or the INTERNET. My only concern with internet buying is that there isnt anyone to scream and shout at if things go wrong. I will try to support my LFS and the local economy as much as possible, but where there are huge margins, i have to support my own wallet to maximise what i can achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 [quote="POMEREEF Why dont the retailers start insisting on getting these products and offering them to us at reasonable prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 A good example is. We have had recent new importers try to lower prices on livestock but reality has set in and they are even more expensive than the existing importers by as much as $10-$20 dollars on corals. The same goes with dry goods, why should a shop hold a skimmer for 6 months before they sell it. No profit in that. So prices are what they are for a reason. The market is much bigger overseas as they have a higher turn over of stock which means cheaper prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 he Pies you don't smoke do you? its bad for your fish nevermind yourself! but if you do smoke then you get ripped off everytime you buy a packet of smokes! in tax free countries like the maldives for example a packet cost $US0.95. doesn't it really piss you off that the government makes such a killing on it, petrol is close behind!! the biggest problem is that you can't even import the stuff yourself. bummer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 This has already been beat to death, don't want to bring up the past. Well sorry for being new and raising an issue that has already cropped up. :oops: The fact that is has cropped up before makes my mention of it all the more valid i would have thought. Lol. And what i am saying is that people are going to online stores because certain items are not available unless they are exorbitant prices. Its THOSE items that retailers should be trying to get at decent prices in order to re-gain that custom which is being lost to online stores. Why would they do this you say? Simple - because its better to make SOME profit on an item and retain the custom of a hobbyist, than not to make ANY profit at all. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Control Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 One of the big problems in this country is that the availabilty of things on the internet and the fact that the customers in this country are happy to go overseas has not sunk into the retailers here. Another problem is that there are to many middle men getting there bit before it gets to the retailer. Most of the internet sites no mater what they are selling are bying direct which keeps their prices down. Aaron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Thats very true Aaron. I do want to support the LFS's but there are just some things they need to wake up to. Other things, they do well at. But the hobby is moving on and people are becoming more and more aware of whats available to them. If they let the internet take over then they will lose out ultimately. I have an example of one shop here in chch (no names) selling a product for $1500. Another shop in Auck is selling the EXACT SAME thing at $900. Now i dont care what you say about shipping costs - it doesnt cost $600 more to ship that item down here. Thats just being bloody greedy at the end of the day. And if i hear the argument that perhaps the Auckland store got a better deal through the wholesaler - as a consumer Im not interested. Thats something the retailer and wholesaler must sort out between themselves instead of being complacent about the issue. Anyway, the points been made. I'll say no more. Don't want this thread to lose track too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 We have done this retail price thing to death on this forum, I suspect that if the shops knew what I looked like they would kick me out as soon as I walked in the door I propose this, just to keep the peace. How about we quote 'street price'. This should be a nice intermediate cost between NZ Retail and cheapest online price and second hand price. This will keep me at bay at least and may give the retailers some relief. I too want to support the LFS, but not at my own expense. Piezilla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Yip Pies - thats a good way to go. Like i said, this info is for folks who have found this site, and if they've done that (new or not to reefkeeping), they will have the wear-with-all to establish the street price for themselves, so street price is the only sensible way of looking at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquagold Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 For all this talk about pet shops ripping people off, I feel is unjust. Sure I am a wholesaler but there are people out there who are and will be coming into the hobby and they need the support lfs gives them. Stores also need to make money to stay in business and provide other products/services. Most pet store people are lifestyle people who love pets as much as us. We all need to make profits as this keeps us in business and employing those that like to finish at five and not think about work so they can enjoy their family time. Do any of you mutter to yourselves about lack of service, well it costs. Stores also try to provide you with a choice of stock not always an easy task. Just something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 For all this talk about pet shops ripping people off, I feel is unjust. so then you either: 1. need to give retailers a better buy price to pass onto the consumer (only making a small margin? ok, so either get a new job or move onto point 2) 2. inform the lfs (im sure most know) that we, as the consumer, demand better buy prices and to drop their own margins (cant run their business on lower margins? ok, move onto point 3) 3. if you cant beat them, join them - tell the jansens and hollywoods to start selling online offering discounted products Sure I am a wholesaler but there are people out there who are and will be coming into the hobby and they need the support lfs gives them. completely agree. most beginners dont have the contacts or know of resources (like this web site) so rely on the LFS to provide goods and service. some offer good advice, some offer poor advice. unfortunately there comes a time when: 1. the hobby becomes too costly and sourcing goods offshore via the net is far more cost-effective 2. your own learning and experience goes beyond what (the average) LFS staff member knows i openly admit, as a consumer, im selfish. i'll only support the LFS out of convenience. if im driving passed and need something urgent, I'll get it. however if there is a $200+ price difference by purchasing through LFS vs overseas, I'll take the offshore purchase and keep my own pocket happy. to quote pies, "welcome to the Internet" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 I agree with Chimera. And think mostly we are all like this with all things, not just our fish hobby. When you are looking for a cheap computer do you just go down and support 'dick smith'? Many do, some don't. Pack&Save vs. the corner dairy. Do we go to the corner starmart to buy our groceries? Nope, cheaper at pack&save. Whiteware, got a mate who works for Noel Leamings? Mates rates. Etc etc. I support my local per store (For me the Hutt Pet Center). But I rarely buy big ticket items from him, because I want to save the bucks. Those who know me know I am not the sort of person who would drive accross town to save a few dollars, but when their is hundreds of dollars on the line, better paying of my morgage than paying someone elses. LFS can be very helpful, and do serve a purpose. Although their are some rogues out their too. In the end I think its people like me (& Chimera in this case) that help get others into the hobby. I don't sell anything (the ocasional frag), and don't care if someone else goes to a pet store, just not something I do myself unless its the best deal, so insignificient its not worth worrying about or I am in a rush. Go the LFS. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 For all this talk about pet shops ripping people off, I feel is unjust. We all need to make profits as this keeps us in business and employing those that like to finish at five and not think about work so they can enjoy their family time. Do any of you mutter to yourselves about lack of service, well it costs. Stores also try to provide you with a choice of stock not always an easy task. Just something to think about. Can you explain to me why ONE store is retailing a lighting system at $1500 and ANOTHER store is retailing THE EXACT SAME ITEM for $900. Is one store just being plain greedy, or is the wholesaler giving the cheaper store a better deal? Hmm, I think i know what my answer is to that one ! Making a profit is one thing. Charging the flaming earth is something totally different. WHEN will retailers and probably some wholesalers too, realise that there is profit in volume? Cant afford to reduce your margin? I would say you cant afford NOT to if you EVER want to compete with the internet. Its here to stay and its only going to get more competetive. Take the punt now - have a sparse year, get lots more interested in the hobby and hey - you got your hook. We still have to come to you for the fish and livestock, and maybe, just maybe if your hardgoods were cheaper too we would wave online stores goodbye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 I'd say it's for the same reason Redwood Aquatics offered to sell me a shop used 2X 175 watt SE metal halide fitting, that looked like it and the reflector was all DIY'd. For $2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquagold Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 I agree in principal about the need to shop around but if you ask the lfs to match the price your willing to pay someone else, will he? Where do you see the lfs fitting in to the picture then? What do they need to supply to make you more happy about spending your money there? I have been wanting to find out, from you the customer,what is missing from the pet store you support. We are trying to help the stores that support us to improve their business through costomer feed back we collect. How many of you have your own business or work for a business that makes profitto pay your wages? All of us. Good to see your support to fellow hobbiest with frag trading and support as I would like to see the marine side become more main stream. We also want see more organismes aquacultured than raped off the reefs but we all need to realize this business needs profits for research........ to supply you the customer. The power at the end of the day is in your hands though as to wether your lfs stays in town though. Thanks for any market research you feel free to give. Robert@Aquagold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 I agree in principal about the need to shop around but if you ask the lfs to match the price your willing to pay someone else, will he? Where do you see the lfs fitting in to the picture then? What do they need to supply to make you more happy about spending your money there? Robert@Aquagold Firstly, if one place is $600 more expensive than another place for the same item, they dont even deserve to be given the opportunity to match a price. In my opinion they should just lose out because they are blatantly trying it on. If I quoted 75% more than my competitors for a job, would my customers say "Hang on, they are only charging X down the road, will you match it?" or would they think - "What a con-man, Im not going to him?". Precisely, the latter on the whole. Where does the LFS fit in? HOPEFULLY, in a positive role, having seriously considered their pricing policy and woken up to the competition of new wave online stores. Its really that simple. They wouldnt even need to be as cheap as the online stores, just so long as there was a FAIR margin. But as so many other members on here have said already (and this is the last time Im going to say it too). If you can make a huge saving elsewhere then thats where you will go. If the LFS priced these items in such a way that they were slightly more than the online price plus shipping, they would get the custom. They would not have onward shipping to pay either because they would be selling direct to the customer. What do they need to supply? Mostly the same as now but at a fair price. But in addition they need to be aware of new products and start asking their wholesalers to bring them in (but dont bother if they are going to be much more expensive than online, because we know the street price of this stuff aye !). It couldnt be more simple. I dont want to see LFS's struggling more and more with the advent of internet purchasing. None of us do I dont imagine. On the whole (there are exceptions to every rule), you can expect good friendly service. Often that even comes with a vast knowledge and enthusiasm. But its no use relying on being a nice guy. You have to be a fair and realistic nice guy. At the end of the day, Customers are fickle creatures. They dont care about anyone else's pocket but their own. And thats fair dinkum isnt it. So as a retailer or wholesaler, if you cater to that you will be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 I like the idea of being able to see a product before I buy it, but what gets me with LFS's is they don't even match other retails prices. For example the light bulb man in wlg city sells marine (blue) fluro tubes for about $25, this is his RETAIL price, including all the overheads of CBD shop, and he keeps a stock of these for to the 20-30 people in the whole region that might want them. LFS sell the same tubes (brand and everything) for $50+?????? Pond pumps are another good example, hydroponic and garden centers typically RETAIL these for 20-30% cheaper than LFS yet they have the same over heads etc. I will admit that not all LFS should be painted with the same brush, the Hutt pet center always seems to charge lower prices (that compare with other non-pet retail supplies), it seems to be the supermarket type pet stores that offer supermarket style poor service, bad advise, and little choice, but for some reason dont offer supermarket style lower prices. I think they are being short sighted, it hasn't been that long (in Wlg anyway) that we have had these large well layed out, one stop (as long as you dont want anything even remotely unusual) super pet shops. I think they are riding the wave of general public who don't want to go into the oldschool clutered pets shops. When I comes to pets I dont think it is unreasonable to expect the owners of these shops to have some social responsibilty to not over charge just because they can and to train their staff to at least a basic level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 OK, So we seem to have some consensus on the problems with certain LFS pricing policies, and we have said what we think they ought to do. Its over to them now. We have agreed we will quote "street price" in this thread as thats what people on here have the "savvy" to acquire. That gives us a good grounding to continue now with this thread - i.e. to agree on equipment for a basic setup. The last comment on the topic of this thread was on PAGE 3, prior to Moderator Bruce's posting. Can we continue from there? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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