TM Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Hi all Just got back from a week in tonga. I was on the main island for seven days. It was interesting to see how everything works and the way the locals treat the reefs. Most of thr tongans have little or know respect for the sea life, we saw a huge sea turtle get killed on the warf and lots of fish of all sizes treated the same way. (fish fine turtle not!!!) On monday i went out on a 6m boat with two of the local collecters for 7 hrs (in the full sun...hot) We went way out to sea to the reef where they collect. The two guys had a screw driver and a wee axe. On of the guys would hold his breath for 4-5 mins and bring back 2-6 leathers. The thing that i found interesting is that the soft corals were rear and the hards corals (acros etc) were not. The government has four zones L1 L2 L3 and L4, these zones are rotated round every three months, so the 4 active (out of five) companys collect from L1 for three months then they move to the next one, and so on. This is for hard corals only. Soft corals can be collected in any of the zones. These guys bring back 80 - 200 pieces per day. ( they get paid $40 - $60t per week thats about $30 - $50 kiwi) Alot of the fish are collected with scuba at about 20m. Bi colour, coral beauty and flame angels are not so common, they take a long time to catch, and are quite seasonal. there were a few fish i saw when swiming around with them but not many. I was a little disapointed with the way they collected, but i did knoe before going how this was done, still its different when you are there. You pretty much don't get clams on the reefs, if the divers find them, they get eaten on the way back to shore. The tongan fisheries produce all the clams with help from some germans. They have three kinds and are getting the other two soon (from Aust.) All and all a good trip got to see all of the wholesalers and collecters etc. sure i will have more to add later Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted April 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Has anyone ever been to Tonga, I would be interested in your thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I've been all over the pacific and Asia. Its the same everywhere. None of these countries have respect for the reefs, nor to their governments. Its the problem with being 3rd world, they can barely take care of themselfs, the reefs just don't register. Your right about hard-corlals being more common, its like this is most places. The problem with removing the hard corals is that they form the reef, the softcorals just live on the reef. It can be a dishearting to see it, but we rape all parts of the planet, just be thankful that the ocean is so much larger than the land. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 hi, i used to live and work in vava'u (the northern island group) for a year in 1996. very similar reports from up there. vava'u has patches with massive amounts of leather corals and little else, the next island with a little different currents may ony have stone coral (huge table tops etc ) then you'll find places with lots of sea fans (yellow gorgonians) the islands of vava' has quite a lot fish a specially the outer islands. as for clams most islanders regard them as yummy food. i nearly attacked a guy who tired to sell me the most beautiful coloured clam meat one can imagine (flourecent green and blue). tonga still seemed a lot more untouched compared to aitutaki in the cooks, i spent 9 month there a year ago. we went quite often on lagoon trips, didi't cost us anything and was always a rleaed day away. but!!! the boat crew which il knew very well could not understand why tourists get so upset when the crew comes back with 10 - 15 beautiful coloured clams for them to eat for lunch it just seems normal to them cookie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agoh Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 its sad...its the real world, glad people atleast acknowledge that in this forum.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 very sad really,... and what make's it worse is the demand from hobbyists' like ourselves create a market for the locals to poach the reef's resources in order to make a living. if only aquacultured corals werent so expensive to produce... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 i think the impact collection has for the hobby is really minimal! ive seen tons of artifical fertilizer being unloaded in the islands, just the runoff from that stuff devestates parts of the reef, i have lived in the maldives shortly after approx. 90% sps died due to bleaching and seen within 6 months the amount of new grow poping up everywhere, the problem really starts when methods like cyanide are being used to catch ornamental fish or dynamite for fishing for food. now funny enough we all want the cheapest clam, coral and fish! true? local fisherman don't make a killing in catching live stock. many would rather eat the clam then sell it for a buck!! a lot less work involved. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 This is the tip of the iceberg. We all want cheap stuff, so they collect more. In a few years we will only get cultured items, so hold on too you wallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuzza Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I would rather buy a frag or cultured coral and watch it grow then be partly resposible for destroying the reefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I would rather buy a frag or cultured coral and watch it grow then be partly resposible for destroying the reefs. Couldnt agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I think the fish are going to be more of a problem in the future than corals. Virtually all corals can be propagated in captivity. But very few fish have ever been bred in captivity (only about 30 or 40 species I think). Looks like some places are making advances in the fish side of things with pigmy angels and yellow tangs, but it's nowhere near commercially viable for most species. (US$800 for a tank bred angel is out of almost everyone's price range). Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted April 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 In a few years we will only get cultured items, so hold on too you wallet. This is interesting. I know first hand of one company that cultures a few items, alot of them are not cultured the way we all think (That is a very small piece stuck to a rock and lert in the sea for 6 - 9 - 12 months then sold.) A high percentage are cut from the natural reef (at a size ready for sale) stuck to a piece of cured rock and left just long enough for some of the tissue to cover the rock. So the cultured piece you get may have come from the reef and not cultured. sad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I cant see anything wrong with that, If they cut a piece from the mother colony then it will just regrow back and the small frag will grow and then be sold. Its better than taking the whole mother colony coral out and leaving nothing to regrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted April 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 I cant see anything wrong with that, If they cut a piece from the mother colony then it will just regrow back and the small frag will grow and then be sold. Its better than taking the whole mother colony coral out and leaving nothing to regrow. Agree But the whole culture thing is a little misleading. When they say after 6 - 9 months they reach a size that can be sold. From what i saw, they dont just carefully cut a wee piece of a "mother colony" axes and screw drivers were involved. I am not saying that they arn't trying to help with the destroying of the reefs. Its more that i did not relise how thew did it. i thought they started with a thumb nail size bit and then let it grow for six to nine months. not start with a full size bit, put it on a rock and then sell it two weeks later. Why buy cultured pieces that are more expensive, your getting the same thing, arn't you???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 i thought they started with a thumb nail size bit and then let it grow for six to nine months Thats what most places do, but you get do get cowboys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquagold Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 If everyone is so concerned about the way marines are collected, may i ask a questionthen? How many of you go into a shop and ask for cultured coral or fish? If the hobbyist only wanted cultured stock you would lessen the amount coming in. Only prob is NZ consumes such a small amount. As GARF said ' Save a reef - Grow your own' The locals round here do the same thing but with 'reefers' in mind....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 i go to a friends and say "how much for a frag" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquagold Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 We are putting in a new reef tank 4'x2'x2' and I hope to fill it with frags. Whats the going rate amongst the reefers in Auck for a newbie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Whats the going rate amongst the reefers in Auck for a newbie? For a frag? Seems to be anywhere from $20 to $60 depending on size and type! Either that or frag swapping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquagold Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Who's got the frags then. My tank will be reef only as our boys have their own 'Nemo tank'(s +dads) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 For a frag? Seems to be anywhere from $20 to $60 depending on size and type! Either that or frag swapping $20 to $60?!?!?!?!!? Wow!!!! Things are certainly different down here in little ol' ChCh. Maybe because we are a much smaller group, but IME we just give each other frags. There is an implicit understanding of reciprocation, but more along the lines of, “Whenever you do some pruning, keep me in mind.†Being new to SPS, I’ve been very fortunate to receive HEAPS of frags for free from very generous locals as well as some Auckland reefers, and I will certainly return the favor to them as well as newbies as soon as mine grow out. There is a shop in town (Organisms) that is selling frags for (I believe) $30. It will be quite interesting to see how this goes with this "swapping" market locally established. He actually has some very nice pieces, so if you are interested, you should drop him a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquagold Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Hi Joeblog Great to hear the news. I was talking John the other day while trying to sell them our Goldfish. I hope they do succeed as this is where the market is heading. I will be down your way sometime will have to have a look at your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 $20 to $60?!?!?!?!!? Wow!!!! of course, they are typically small frags and you have to wait for them to grow. I haven't spent more than about $40 on a single coral... yet. most a single or double 'stalk' no bigger than your little finger. still, a bit like a garden - i'd prefer to watch and allow it to grow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 what sort of frags go for $60? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted April 5, 2005 Report Share Posted April 5, 2005 big ones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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