sump design feedback wanted

[redracer77]

I am going go make a sump for my new tank which will be 1500 x700 x 600

Sump planned to be 900 x 450 x 350. Turnover approx 2500-3000 lph

Feedback appreciated, sorry about the basic drawing and pic quality.

[hovmoller]

Looks like a good design to me.

The first compartment says settlement but with the drain from tank being blasted in there nothing will settle in this space.

If you want a proper settlement space you need to add another weir just after the drain and perhaps a bigger area than 200mm.. but you don't really need a settlement area unless you have extreme amounts of solid waste that you don't want clogging up the mech. area.

Also make sure your heater will fit in that space (an eheim 300W is quite long)

[redracer77]

I'm not too worried about the settlement, it is more there if I want to add filter socks or more mech in the future.

Hopefully should have room for heaters, I'm using aqua one stainless heaters at the moment.

[David R]

If you want a proper settlement space you need to add another weir just after the drain and perhaps a bigger area than 200mm.. but you don't really need a settlement area unless you have extreme amounts of solid waste that you don't want clogging up the mech. area.

Or look into making something like a 'radial flow separator' so you can get the heavy waste settling out. Bot as said, unless you've got some big messy fish (the settling chamber section on mine works well for catching the copious amounts of sawdust made by my Panaques) it isn't really necessary.

If you end up running a filter sock before the poret it will basically make the poret redundant as mechanical filtration. IMO you'd achieve every bit as good a result by simply suspending a couple of filter socks into an old aquarium and having laundry bags full of ceramic rings, or matrix etc, no baffles.

[redracer77]

Thanks for the input. I am going to try and avoid filter socks unless I have to, I want to keep maintenance low if possible.

I have most of the glass I need to make this any way and those dimensions will be perfect for the shelve it will go on.

Where is the best place for a drain for eater changes? Top of the first compartment?

[David R]

Where is the best place for a drain for eater changes? Top of the first compartment?

If you want to do them with the system running, then you'll want the drain to be at the "on" water level in the last compartment.

RE the socks and maintenance, what are you planning to stock the tank with? IIRC Henward gets over a week from his four 100micron socks on a heavily stocked 2000L+ system, I think if you had 3-4 socks on your tank you'd probably be able to get 2-4+ weeks out of them. The poret is ok as mechanical filtration, but you're never going to have gin-clear water with poret alone.

[redracer77]

If you want to do them with the system running, then you'll want the drain to be at the "on" water level in the last compartment.

Yep hopefully water changes with system running, I have water supply right above where the sump is going, and will be running a drain outside.

RE the socks and maintenance, what are you planning to stock the tank with? IIRC Henward gets over a week from his four 100micron socks on a heavily stocked 2000L+ system, I think if you had 3-4 socks on your tank you'd probably be able to get 2-4+ weeks out of them. The poret is ok as mechanical filtration, but you're never going to have gin-clear water with poret alone.

Stocking will be from my 300l: 2x A.heckelii, plecs 3x L142, L200, L14, 3x Royal whiptails, fire eel (stunted to 20cm) plus what I decide on adding. Hoping to have some big sword plants as well

Not after gin clear water, I would prefer to have the ability to leave it for a couple of weeks and not have to worry.

[Likoma]

RE the socks and maintenance, what are you planning to stock the tank with? IIRC Henward gets over a week from his four 100micron socks on a heavily stocked 2000L+ system, I think if you had 3-4 socks on your tank you'd probably be able to get 2-4+ weeks out of them. The poret is ok as mechanical filtration, but you're never going to have gin-clear water with poret alone.

Thats a good point David,

It`s important to use the right tool for the job. If you are wanting to remove minute particles something with a porosity of 30-45ppi will struggle due to it being unfit for purpose.

I have a done a few sumps recently and have employed this setup (see diagram) . Cleaning intervals are large due to the grading of dirt and debris. You also ensure the water reaching the biological media is exceptionally clean.

This is the most important factor to ensure that all that internal surface area of ceramic noodles, matrix or effusive remains available. This media encrusted with dirt and mulm is far less effective.

[David R]

My bio media is about due for a clean, and I intend to put it in laundry bags to make the job easier in the future. I'm happy with the clarity the poret provides (you'll never have gin-clear water when keeping Panaques anyway!) and I love the long intervals between cleaning the media. Nearly 12 months on it seems to be holding up well, and I'm thinking about replacing one of the 20ppi sheets with a 30ppi (currently running 10-20-20-30ppi).

[Likoma]

Good to hear that its holding up well considering the flow rate of your particular system.

When I viewed your sump video I was well impressed.

[David R]

Yeah it's handling the flow well, but I did need to support the last sheet with a piece of egg crate (cheers Hovmoller!!) to prevent it flexing too much.

[redracer77]

I have a done a few sumps recently and have employed this setup (see diagram) . Cleaning intervals are large due to the grading of dirt and debris. You also ensure the water reaching the biological media is exceptionally clean.

I like the look of this, Thanks Greg.

Would it be better to have all of the water pass through the bio rather than it being able to flow over it?

[flymike]

Thanks for the input. I am going to try and avoid filter socks unless I have to, I want to keep maintenance low if possible.

I'm running a basic setup like David R suggested

Pic i took a wile back

Have about 30 juvi african cichlids in a 1200x500x500 tank

Flowing a measured 1800lph

7" 200micron sock

30ppi foam

40mm bio balls (for spacing)

45ppi foam

noodles

heater

pump

I haven't "had" to clean the sock out, but did after the first 6 weeks running.

I added the foam as like a buffer between the incoming water and noodles, I had a bit lot of small particles coming off the noodles with the in rushing water. The foam smooths the flow out out and fixed the soup like water out in a few hours.

Weather the foam is catching what is being squeezed through the sock and not letting it settle around the noodles, I don't know yet, but it made a difference

You can see the particles that have been pushed through the sock in the bottom of the tank though.

It started life as a baffled sump, but as I found better ways to do things the baffles just got in the way.

But I was constantly changing the system to achieve what I wanted,

When I do it again, all will be sorted 100% before I add fish

I got very technical about it all, and all this did was complicate things.

After David R made a few suggestions, the old KISS theory kicked in and away I went, sock-noodles-pump

[Likoma]

Nice setup FlyMike.

To answer your question RedRacer, yes you would want to force the water through the Bio media. By placing it between removable baffles of your choosing.

By placing a final glass baffle just before the return pump you can improve the performance of the sump by managing the water level, rather than letting the return pump dictate water level.

This photo shows an aqua one aquarium that sits in my living room.

Its a very efficient system. Been running 1 year with no cleaning. The bio-media is 5cm squares of poret, because it lies after the mechanical filtration area it never gets cleaned. A no maintenance bed of beneficial bacteria that improves with each month of no muddling. Very similar to the Hamburg Matten Filter.

It used to house this colony of discus, where it was thoroughly tested.

[flymike]

Nice setup FlyMike.

Thanks Likoma

I wouldn't call it "Nice", but it gave me plenty of options for experimenting/upgrading and moving things around.

Before with baffles, it was quite restricting when it came to experimenting with different bio medias and layouts.

One of my first ideas was to use foam to separate my different medias, I thought this way I would easily be able to change media types,amounts and the layout of the sump.

But it doesn't need to be overly complicated to work great.

One thing I did notice when the baffles were in, was the velocity of the water was quite quick moving up and down past the baffles (@ 1800lph), with the current set up you would hardly notice the water moving.

I'm pretty sure a slower velocity through the media is better and gives the bacteria a better chance to settle and work on the water as it goes past.

[Likoma]

Good point. Better contact time for the nitrification process and a higher chance for debris to snag in the mechanical filtration Stage

[land_lubber]

If you are looking for ideas here is my sump. I have the inlet fed into the bio balls chamber then from there 10ppi, 20ppi, 30ppi and synfil poret foam then goes to the pump:

[binu]

hello greg ..

I was thnkin to contact u last few weeks before ,,just because I bought a bigger tank and thought of getin a sump for it ..

so wanted to get an idea from you and also wanted to buy some poret ..that tank was so heavy so couldn't pic up till this time and hence didn't called u

I have some doubts about sump could u all pls help out , I m very new to this sump .. is it better to use sump or canister filter??

also I have no one in rotorua can make a sump tank for me .. so planning to buy a small tank and use it as sump but my question is do I have to separate it with glass dividers or just fit those poret in between as wall??

also were can I get cheaper pump , and also the connecter for the pipe from overflow of tank ?? as I told I m very new ..no idea how to do it

the tank I m buyn hav got overflow hole already made but its bit bigg ,

also the poret is working very well in cleaning my tank ,thank you greg

[binu]

one more question ..

how big should be the sump tank ?

I mean for bigger tank should I get a bigger sump? does it matter the size?? the tank can be 300 to 350 litre tank so wat size sump tank will it suit ?

[flymike]

one more question ..

how big should be the sump tank ?

I mean for bigger tank should I get a bigger sump? does it matter the size?? the tank can be 300 to 350 litre tank so wat size sump tank will it suit ?

Everyone says "bigger is better :sage: "

and there right

[David R]

There is certainly no maximum size, but it does need to be big enough (and designed accordingly) so that when the pump switches off the sump can hold all the water that will drain down from the tank. I usually figure out the volume based on the footprint of the tank and 2cm deep, then add a 'fudge factor' of 50-100%, it is certainly better to have a bigger sump than a wet floor!

[binu]

so what size sump do you guys recommend for a 300 litr tank?

also as i asked before is it necessary to make barracks inside the tank ? or can i divide it with poret sponge?

[flymike]

This my post from a wile back, bit of info here.

Has pics from when I got the sump, up until how It is now

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65660

[binu]

thank you fly mike