Sump Filtration Configuration Question

[flymike]

Hi Guys,

I've recently acquired a 300l tank and stand that also came with a home built wet/dry sump.

Will be an african cichlid tank (peacocks and haps)

I'm new to sumps, but understand the basic filtration concept.

I currently have it configured like this,

Overflow runs down from tank to sump ,

fills a thin tall bay and overflows on to tray with holes which distribute over about 8l of 20mm bio balls (wet/dry),

under this is about 200mm deep filled with 40mm bio balls and 40mm cubes of bio sponge (under water full time),

then goes under a baffle through 45mm sponge

up through bio noodles,

over baffle, down through 45mm sponge and 3 layers of 40mm bio balls,

under a baffle, past 300w heater,

through some mesh (to keep media away from heater)

then in to where the pump is, I have the pump surrounded with small 25mm plastic cages with a foam inside.

Miles of surface area to work with I know.

The sump holds about 27l of water, and all up the system is holding 275l

Pumps working at 1500 lph (cycling about 5.45 times per hour)

My question is, do you need an area without any media in a fresh water sump??

Thanks

Mike

[David R]

It sounds like it needs some more mechanical filtration, IMO. any pictures?

[flymike]

Im not sure where to fit mechanical filtration in, a filter sock maybe??

or fit something in where the overflow enters?

[David R]

Looks like a sump set up for a marine tank that has been converted for FW use. Not really sure what you can do with it, but if it were me I'd probably get rid of all the baffles and use it with a filter sock and submerged media like matrix or ceramic rings. You could keep the first baffle and the overflow "ramp" to make it quieter, then suspend the sock under the ramp with a couple of small pieces of glass directing the water into it. Ditch the last two baffles and add more ceramic rings in bags. Alternately, you could just run some filter wool on top of the bioballs to catch the worst of the crud.

[Ira]

You already have mechanical filtration, that layer of filter wool. But you could take that out, fill the area under it with sponge and fill the next section up with noodles.

[flymike]

The filter wool is on a tray (full of holes), directly under that is filled with 20mm bio balls, then under that I've filled with 40mm bio balls and 40mm cubes of sponge.

I have some sponge laying round, I could remove some of the 20mm bio balls and put a layer of 45mm sponge directly under the tray, and double the filter wool in the tray. Would just have to replace the filter wool on a regular basis I suppose.

Or I just so happen to have a 20l bucket based swirl filter I built for another project sitting in the shed, I might look in to this!

[Ira]

The filter wool is on a tray (full of holes), directly under that is filled with 20mm bio balls, then under that I've filled with 40mm bio balls and 40mm cubes of sponge.

I have some sponge laying round, I could remove some of the 20mm bio balls and put a layer of 45mm sponge directly under the tray, and double the filter wool in the tray. Would just have to replace the filter wool on a regular basis I suppose.

Or I just so happen to have a 20l bucket based swirl filter I built for another project sitting in the shed, I might look in to this!

There's not much point putting sponges after the filter wool, the wool won't leave anything for the sponges to filter out.

[flymike]

There's not much point putting sponges after the filter wool, the wool won't leave anything for the sponges to filter out.

The sponge I have is roughly 25ppi, should I sponge first then filter wool?

[Ira]

The sponge I have is roughly 25ppi, should I sponge first then filter wool?

Yeah, always coarse filtration before fine. You could probably even put the sponge you have in place of the filter wool.

[David R]

I wouldn't, 25ppi isn't all that fine.

[Ira]

I wouldn't, 25ppi isn't all that fine.

That's the point. As it is the first thing the water hits is filter wool. Any mechanical filtration after that becomes pointless.

[camtang]

I disagree a bit on that. I was having issues with particles making its way back into the system and added poret before the return pump and it stopped the big majorty of it.

[Ira]

I disagree a bit on that. I was having issues with particles making its way back into the system and added poret before the return pump and it stopped the big majorty of it.

That's a different issue, that's particles getting past your filter. You should always have coarse filtration before fine filtration, not fine first.

In this case what is likely to happen is the filter wool clogs in about a few days and then the water looks like it will overflow into the area where the noodles are.

[camtang]

Thats exactly what happened. But the foam still acted as a mechanical filter/ polisher

[David R]

That's the point. As it is the first thing the water hits is filter wool. Any mechanical filtration after that becomes pointless.

I meant I wouldn't put the foam in place of the filterwool as it isn't fine enough to be the sole form of mechanical filtration.

[flymike]

This is a better pic showing what I have and how its working.

I'm currently using a stuffed, very loud pump to cycle the water during the day, the black hose running from right to left is for a second smaller quieter pump I'm running at night, Turning off the big loud pump and just cycling the sump on its own (tank has an internal filter in it as well)

[camtang]

Can you access all the sponges?

[Ira]

I still say, put a sheet of sponge where the filter wool is now, you can put the filter wool under it above the bioballs.

[David R]

Looks like too much bio and not near enough mechanical filtration to me, unless you have a ridiculous amount of fish in that tank! If it were mine I'd be removing the last two baffles and running a filter sock in the part where you have filter wool/bioballs then fill the rest up with submerged rings, matrix, whatever.

[flymike]

Can you access all the sponges?

Yeah you can, but you do have to remove the small bio balls, there's a mesh screen holding them up.

I might have to have a think about sorting out the mechanical side of things.

Baffle wise, this was how it was set up when I got it, the old owner was running discus in the tank.

Ill have a think about it tonight.

Thanks Guys

[flymike]

Alright, I've split my overflow and added 2 filter socks

Excuses the fence standards holding it all together :slfg: , Ill cut those down tomorrow.

Will probably remove the media from around the pumps

Better you recon??

[Ira]

You should probably drop the filter socks lower so if they clog up and start overflowing they'll overflow inside the sump. Nothing worse than being busy for a few weeks and flooding the house.

Otherwise looks good.