ben19185074 Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 ...was better yesterday but seem to be coming back today The crown is still breathing quickly and his eyes is still poping out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kim Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Lets not try to get to the wholesalers. I has seen stock deliver to the LFS many times and they are in very good quality. (If the wholesalers tank is crap i don't think the fish can live through the QT period) I think the viruses has got into the fish in the tanks of the shop. well all i have to say on the matter before you throw stones have you talked to the retailer? always look at a fish very well before you buy it and if it doesnt look 100% you can always as the shop to hold them for you, also who says it wasnt in your tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 I still think you should feed some finely chopped garlic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 I'll take it from your last post Chimera that you have actually tried freshly chopped garlic as per the article? No? Oh, sorry, pity you don't know what you're sniggering about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Garlic's great for human immune systems too, I know a person who eats Garlic every day and virtually never gets sick. I tried doing that but I kept forgetting : / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Oh, sorry, pity you don't know what you're sniggering about Man you take sh#t seriously wasp... I was laughing at your persistence rather than the actual dosing of garlic and whether or not it works. Personally, my white spot comes and goes on very rare occassions; I dont dose anything, so personally, I dont really care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Pity you never said what you were laughing at. Way you've been acting lately I just took it as another one of your attacks. Serious? Hmmm... I cannot express an opinion without having the shxt word used at me and accused of being serious? - Lighten up. Just don't see the point in finely chopped garlic being rubbished by guys who never tried it. And I'm not only talking about you chimera, so no need to get all worked up and personal. I'm simply trying to say that IMO this method of using garlic is very effective, not get into a slamming match with knockers that never tried it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Just don't see the point in finely chopped garlic being rubbished by guys who never tried it. And I'm not only talking about you chimera, so no need to get all worked up and personal :lol: whatever, it wasnt personal. but if it makes you feel better... I have never knocked your garlic dosing as most others seem to have done... and exactly as you say, Im not going to say it doesnt work because I have never tried it and not read enough evidence to say it does or doesnt. Lighten up. :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Sheesh, what I have to go through just for saying garlic should be tried, and presenting an article about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 and I congratulate you on doing that, serious. none of what I wrote is sarcasm, I was serious!!! basically, you are offering an 'option' to fix white spot - at least it's something for ben19185074 to consider. one little "laughing face" doesnt change that does it?!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Just don't see the point in finely chopped garlic being rubbished by guys who never tried it. And I'm not only talking about you chimera, so no need to get all worked up and personal. I'm simply trying to say that IMO this method of using garlic is very effective, not get into a slamming match with knockers that never tried it. Sheesh, what I have to go through just for saying garlic should be tried, and presenting an article about it. Wasp - You do argue pretty hard out, just look at the Layton/wasp million post thread for example, it is difficult to 'disucss' things with you without you comming on very strongly. Hence the reason I droped the garlic subject with you this time, you are very insistant. Understand my (and by the looks of it, Chimeras) point. Neither of us have said that garlic doesn't work, just that no one can prove it. There are others here who also belive it works. Personally I think its a common 'trend' in reefkeeping (maybee in society in general) that for every problem you can apply a pill (garlic in this case) to fix it. The reason I have not tried garlic (and perhapps the same for Chimera) is because there is no need. I know I don't need garlic, as my whitespot has gone, you 'say' garlic helped, but how do you know it had no effect and the good health of your tank is what saved it, not the garlic? You do make it hard for people to discuss it for you, if you disagree you will post 'forever' never conceeding a point, hence the reason i've not got invloved with too many of the debates you have been invloved in, you won't budge regardless. Just my opnion though, no offence intended. Respectfully PieMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Thanks for your assesement of me pies. Maybe you should have been a shrink. Thanks also for bringing up again the argument I had with Layton a while back. Personally I found the argument disgusting, and tried to end it several times. The reason I did it was because I could not make a post here without layton posting within minutes to say I was wrong, whatever the subject. I considered leaving the board altogether, but then decided instead to have it out with him, as long and hard as he wanted to make it. Horrible choice, but at least now I can make a post without immediate harassement from him every time. And I know I will never live that argument down, but I've seen others including yourself get pretty worked up over a lot less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Its hard not to insist on the 'last word'. My feelings on the post were mixed, I personally never though Layton got any valid point accross, and I suspect that was obvious to anyone reading it. The problem was you were never going to convince him. And at some point it just 'silly'. I wouldn't worry about it though, nothing wrong with stating you case and if you do really feel strongly about it then follow your heart. Not sure if i've ever got worked up on this site. Its the internet, its not designed to be taken seriously. For me I want to learn, and am happy to share me experances with others. I am not to bothered about being right or wrong but I do try and correct mistakes being made by others if I see them. I'd like to think I am open minded enough to do the same. I have made many good friends through this hobby and this site, and distroyed a good friendship too. I have invited many people into my home from this site, and been invited to many. A bit of debate is natural, the internet is bad for it because everyone is a 'hardman/woman' when behind the keyboard. People that know me know that I am the same in real life. I consider myself friendly and helpful, but i'm not stupid and always have both eyes wide open. Didn't mean any offence to you, just saying, happy to remove the post if you want, i'll just PM it insted If you ever want to 'have a go' but don't want to make it public, PM me, i'm up for it Piechiatrist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calvin Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 And that's the shops fault? Nope. Healthy fish will easily recover as long as tank conditions are good. What sort of fish was it, what size tank, what other fish are in the tank? Layton I was just making the point that it does not matter where you buy form, or what condition the fish are in when you get them, You can still get WhiteSpot and loose some fish in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Wasp when i first saw WS i rushed out in WGTN that week and brought a bag of garlic... all week i worried that i would return to AKL to a tank of dead fish.... when i got back they all looked great... no WS, tiny dusting a week or so later.... i still have the garlic in cupboard and no WS what does my experience prove.......... "You can do nothing, and in some cases the White Spot will become dormant." I know i did nothing, i wasn't even there! by itself this same "result" has been seen by other NZ reef keepers. I hypothosise therefore that adding garlic experients must be conducted with do nothing control experiemnts before a scientific co-relation should be concluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 wheres a good place to buy garlic? the supermarkets are kind of expensive but i still buy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 wheres a good place to buy garlic? the supermarkets are kind of expensive but i still buy it ? I brought a bag of garlic cloves (maybee 10-12) last week in the groceries from countdown, $1.79, hardly worth shopping around. Note - for my cooking not for my reef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 at my local pak and save its 2$ for one peice of garlic :-? n.b for cooking also, but i want to make a pasta that needs heaps its called il bagno caldo (hot bath) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 come to think of it i dont think my wife will let me make it at our flat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Peter, you have a good point. Because white spot can come and go, feeding garlic, and then seeing the white spot gone, proves nothing. This is the problem, as some repeatedly keep pointing out. It really needs a labotatory trial, to demonstrate that white spot was killed by garlic, and none of us has the resources to do that. I have though in the past lost fish to whitespot, and once it gets to a certain point, you can tell that the fish has past the point of no return and is going down. It was a case like that, where I tried garlic, and was astounded at the almost miraculous recovery. On a second occasion, I had a white spot outbreak, and once one of the fish got pretty bad, broke out the garlic, and again, a good recovery. Thinking I had it sorted, I stopped the garlic, and the white spot returned. Restarted, white spot left, stopped, and it returned again. This time I continued feeding for the 2 months period of the whitespot lifecycle and never saw it again. Now of course none of this proves anything because it could all have just "happened". But had you been with me at the time, there did appear a definate correlation between feeding garlic & whitespot dissappearing. Then I found that article showing how garlic is active in several different ways against several parasites that are similar to ich. Unfortunately it has not been (to my knowledge) tested specifically against ich, but based on the evidence presented in the article there is certainly a case to believe it is likely to. So the way I see it is this. It has not been PROOVED garlic kills ich. But there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that it does. You can get enough garlic to do the job for two bucks, so why not? It is completely non disruptive with no need to catch fish or anything, the fish after a couple of days get the taste and really like it, and when I've fed it for a week or two they look better for it. It may cause liver damage, so good not to overdose, although I used to feed heaps and never had a bad reaction. It is also foreign to the marine environment, so confuses the ich when trying to attach to a fish that smells of it, as well as attacking the parasite directly. However, I don't want anyone to see this as being an argument, I am simply putting the case for garlic, nobody need see this as some kind of attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 sort of like trying homopathic remedies while also using normal cancer curing drugs........ why not, what have you got to lose! ok i see your point... i also see other peoples point that adding garlic, may, cause some harm... also unproven. A truely scientific study would link the garlic to a phase in the parisites lifecycle and how it blocks/kills the parisite at this point. lets face it, none of the reef tank additives I have seen come with any links to scientific studies or independant analysis.... they seem to be virtual homopathic remedies... not to be confused with snake oil.... which clearly must derieve from snakes. thinking more about it..... Kalk - cheap industrial source, epson salts stuf for mag, iodine from pharnmacy, that pool stuff and baking soda.... all the "proven" additives with clear scientific testing and chemical reactions seem to be cheap and cheerful, its just the unproven ones that cost heaps! why not start bottling Wasp's no more Ich.... may be more profitable then fragging..... and proof does not commercially seem to be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Don't worry Pies, and Chimera, just another one of wasp's tiresome reading comprehension issues. Careful though, you may get the full force of zeovit.com's ignorance brigade, if you keep it up. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 I wondered how long b4 you crawl out of the woodwork? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 It is also foreign to the marine environment, so confuses the ich when trying to attach to a fish that smells of it, as well as attacking the parasite directly. Interesting, I never knew that ich had the sense of smell. I guess you learn something every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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