TenyTinyKaz Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 I've only just started keeping cichlids, I mean I've only had them for a little over a week. I think one of my 6 various sized yellows is a female and may be holding but I'm just not sure. She wont open her mouth properly so I can't really see in it but I have been watching her closely for the last three days and she appears to want to eat but doesn't and I did catch a very very breif glimpse in her mouth and there may have been pale round things in there but it was so fast I can't be 100% positive it isn't membrane or something. She prefers to stay in her hole but does come out on occasion. The fact that she isn't eating but otherwise appears happy and mobile, fins aren't clamped or anything like that. I have certainly seen a couple of the other yellows (presumably males) swim up to the entrance to her hole and shake. Can anyone help is there anyway to be sure other than just waiting and keeping an eye on her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 is her chin going blue or extending down/out? can you post a pic too?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenyTinyKaz Posted December 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 It does kind of look like it may be coming down/out, its hard to say they are so new to me I'm still watching them everyday and getting to know the differences between each of them you know. I honestly would be very very surprised if she was holding anything. But I just haven't found much info on what I would be expecting to see if this is the case. They are such new fish to me it could just be her behaviour and my partner putting thoughts in my head. I don't know :dunno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 the shaking, not eating (although that happens with new fish sometimes), shyness (although not unusual for a new fish too), and the glimpse, and chin sound like she could be :thup: watch her for a few days more - you will notice the chin getting darker blue/shaded looking and the chin will pop out and look sort of like a pelican with a full beak. I've seen good video recently that explained it well - i will try and find it and link you too - its a lot easier to see than read what you should look for! how big is she/how old is she? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 does she look like she is grinding her jaws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenyTinyKaz Posted December 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 Yea kind of, she is making constant small movements with her jaw that kind of looks like what happens when you have one of thoes old school giant gobstoppers in your mouth, which is what made me think maybe there is something in her mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 sounds like she is you tube wind load for me today, so will find the video for you tomorrow. if she's big enough (adult size) just leave her to it to spit them out herself. if you are really worried she won't survive or will hold on too long then see if someone can help you strip her, its not something id recommend to a new keeper. its really easy to damage her, or make her panic and swallow them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 here you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 the bucal cavity will expand or she may only have a few eggs which won't make her mouth swell much at all. In a few days as the eggs grow into fry the eggs will darken and so will her "chin" which will confirm it without actually looking in her mouth. if she's big enough (adult size) just leave her to it to spit them out herself. if you are really worried she won't survive or will hold on too long then see if someone can help you strip her, its not something id recommend to a new keeper. its really easy to damage her, or make her panic and swallow them. i disagree with this advice, it is easy to do and far better for the malawians as they don't eat while holding. If you leave her to spit she will loose a lot of condition and you run the risk of loosing her. I often check if a fish is holding, just net her and open her mouth with your finger nail or something pointy but blunt, I use a roofing nail which works really well. I strip around day 16 or 17, that way they are free swimming and the female doesn't loose too much condition. here's a good video showing how easy it is. just stay calm when you first do it, i have done it dozens of times with a wide variety of africans and it is really easy once you have done it once or twice. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/videos/stripping.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 i disagree with this advice, it is easy to do and far better for the malawians as they don't eat while holding. If you leave her to spit she will loose a lot of condition and you run the risk of loosing her. yep - but I'm pretty sure the OP is new to keeping fish - not just africans - so may have difficulty catching in a calm manner and may not know quite how to hold, or how gentle etc to be when stripping. risks her swalling fry and putting her through un needed stress. if you do want to strip though there is a video by the same guy which is a really good beginners approach to stripping if you are game enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 yep - but I'm pretty sure the OP is new to keeping fish - not just africans - so may have difficulty catching in a calm manner and may not know quite how to hold, or how gentle etc to be when stripping. risks her swalling fry and putting her through un needed stress. gotta learn somehow, it's easy to do. no amount of hours looking at fish will make you "ready" to give it a go. did you watch the video i posted a link to at cichlid forum? that clearly shows how easy and quick it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 fair enough - each to their own. would be boring if we all gave the same advice hows she doing? any signs of beging ready to spit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 fair enough - each to their own. would be boring if we all gave the same advice totally and often we have different experiences which is fair enough. I must have stripped near on 1,000 african fry and never had an issue that i can remember. I did have one peacock female that would spit them when you tried catching her, that actually made it quite easy as you simply had to net the fry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenyTinyKaz Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Hey guys thank you so much for all the advice, I haven't had a chance to look at your links yet as I am sneaking a peak at this thread while at work. I believe she may have a couple of eggs in there but not many as I watched them all when feeding the others again this morning. I have kept fish before but not Africans and other than my Angel fish which I bred they were livebearers and needed no help in that department! :sml1: Once I get home from work I'll have a good look at the clips etc. So exciting and I was going to look at breeding the Africans later on I wasn't even sure if I had any females as I just got 6 yellows of various sizes off a local breeder. Whew I guess just like with us humans, sometimes these things just happen whether your prepared or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 just take your time and be patient is my adivce. the first time i striped i lost the fish through my own neglect and handling. Mistakes happen and if this does happen learn from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenyTinyKaz Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 here you go Thanks for the link, yes she definitely looks like this. I was able to get a look in her mouth this morning and there are definitely a few eggs in there, I wouldn't say she is full of eggs though. I've had a look at the links now and they are really good, thanks so much everyone. It really is easier to see what someone is talking about. All the different advice is really great, if one thing doesn't work out for me I know what I can try next. In my limited experience, what works for one doesn't always work for another and thier fish. I think I will either just leave her in the main tank and see if she will spit them or move her to her own tank at approximately day 16ish and see if she will spit them in there. If this doesn't work or I am getting concerned about her health I will try stripping her, I may be able to enlist the help of the breeder I got her off if need be. She is about 10cm(ish) so I don't know if this her first brood or not but it sure is my first one :sml2: So my next question is; assuming I do get some little babies out of this, then what? I have a spare tank and will put a couple ornaments in for comfort but do I want a substrate (I only have gravel on hand) or will it be better without whilst they are so small? And what do I feed them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Put free swim fry into their own tank otherwise they will get eaten. Crushed flakes or pellets should do well for your baby cichlids. :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 awesome!! keep us updated on her progress when you move her make sure to move her into a tank set up with main tank water. bare tank will be fine - it will make cleaning easer and quicker - which is better with a small tank - you don't get time to fluff around being pedantic before you run out of water to drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenyTinyKaz Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Will baby brine shrimp as well as the crushed flakes/pellets be ok for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieFish Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 once they are a bit bigger - but crushed flake for the first few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenyTinyKaz Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Thank you so much for all the help, a little over a week after getting the fish I was really unprepared for eggs. I was really shocked to see that they had bred already. I will definitely keep you updated, no doubt I will have more questions along the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 can increase the growth rate by doing LOTSA water changes and over feeding as well (talking feeding so there is ALWAYS food available and water changes 50% 1-2 times daily to remove uneaten food) a sponge filter will help too as certain greeblies will grow on it providing live food for them. can't go past bbs and micro/grindal worms though. plus a good quality dried food as the base staple diet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 can increase the growth rate by doing LOTSA water changes and over feeding as well (talking feeding so there is ALWAYS food available and water changes 50% 1-2 times daily to remove uneaten food) a sponge filter will help too as certain greeblies will grow on it providing live food for them. can't go past bbs and micro/grindal worms though. plus a good quality dried food as the base staple diet i agree with over feeding but 50% WC's 1-2 times daily? that sounds over the top in my experience. Personally i have always over fed but never done more than 1 water change a week, just have plenty of filtration and maybe do two water changes a week if your concerned or see the parameters rising on your test kit. I always have food left in the tank so they can graze throughout the day. One method i use when they are very small, probably for the first 4 weeks or so i put them in a net in a large tank (300L) running a CF1000 canister. I make sure there is plenty of water flow through the net to stop the water in the net going bad and the fish get plenty of food. They grow surprisingly fast. I also just feed what i feed the adults, they small fish have no problems eating NLS cichlid formula and JBL novorift sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 ive always noticed way more growth rates on fish that have lotsa water changes, africans included, 50% twice a day is easy if set up right (growout tank should be around 100L so if you have accessable taps then only takes a few mins) its more about making sure there is no uneaten food left overnight. if you are able to try in a couple of grow outs and compare I would see what happens (my leopard fish are showing aproxx 2-3 x groth rate with daily water changes than the youn that get weekly changes) Jack Wattley has done experiments which prove this in discus and seems to work on most other fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 ive always noticed way more growth rates on fish that have lotsa water changes, africans included, 50% twice a day is easy if set up right (growout tank should be around 100L so if you have accessable taps then only takes a few mins) its more about making sure there is no uneaten food left overnight. if you are able to try in a couple of grow outs and compare I would see what happens (my leopard fish are showing aproxx 2-3 x groth rate with daily water changes than the youn that get weekly changes) Jack Wattley has done experiments which prove this in discus and seems to work on most other fish. fair enough but keep in mind that food makes them grow, not fresh water. Having enough filtration will negate the need for the water changes wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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