reuben.a Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 iv just finished building a rockwall and hides for my enclosure that will house a water dragon and im buying everything i need atm. do you need a thermostat for a basking bulb or without one will the temperatures in the enclosure get to high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 that will depend on the size and location of our setup and the wattage of your heatsource.To many variables to give an accurate answer.Thermostat is definatley a good safety thing to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reuben.a Posted April 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 ok, thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Agree with above. I have thermostats on all mine. Used those dimmer type things on trademe for a while but I found them to be pretty useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEAnthrax Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 My thermostat doesn't do anything for me, my temps always stay as they should ( I measure them with thermometer probes and an infrared gun). So without it I wouldn't have a problem. But because of the varying temps at night it's good to have one to make sure your pet doesn't get too cold/hot while it's sleeping. So no you don't need if you know you can keep good temps still without one, but it's good to have anyway for those just in case occasions when you can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 If you have a constant source of heat and varying ambients your temperatures will fluctuate. I use light bulbs as a heat source for breeding insects and I need to change bulbs from 25 to 40 to 60 watt depending on the time of year and varying ambients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reuben.a Posted April 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 ok thx really helpfull my enclosure will have a 60w basking bulb and a uvb bulb during the day and then thell both go off and a heat mat will be used at night. the enclosure is 1m by 500 by 500. i will only have the heat source on one side of the enclosure so what i was meaning was does the temperature of the hot side have to be controlled because if he gets to hot he can just move to the cool side? the enclosure has vents aswell so it will let the heat out anyway so the whole enclosure doesnt heat up. sorry for the probably stupid comment but yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 ok thx really helpfull my enclosure will have a 60w basking bulb and a uvb bulb during the day and then thell both go off and a heat mat will be used at night. the enclosure is 1m by 500 by 500. i will only have the heat source on one side of the enclosure so what i was meaning was does the temperature of the hot side have to be controlled because if he gets to hot he can just move to the cool side? the enclosure has vents aswell so it will let the heat out anyway so the whole enclosure doesnt heat up. sorry for the probably stupid comment but yeah. If your enclosure is inside, which it sounds like it is, you need a merc vapour bulb or metal hallide (chews through the power) as a source for uva/uvb. You'll be amazed at how superior these bulbs are compared to standard light + fluoro tubes. You'll get about 24 months out of a good quality one, which works out at about $40 a year for the exoterra ones. You want the merc vapour down one end so that there is a heat gradient that allows your w/d to regulate its own temp. No need for night time heat source. 60W is probably a bit low in terms of wattage, the bulb would need to be really close to the basking spot.....go for a 100w merc vapour, or failing that a 160w. Then email me and let me know where you bought it.....I need some too. DONT use a thermostat on a merc vapour, you will blow the bulb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 My thermostat doesn't do anything for me, my temps always stay as they should ( I measure them with thermometer probes and an infrared gun). So without it I wouldn't have a problem. But because of the varying temps at night it's good to have one to make sure your pet doesn't get too cold/hot while it's sleeping. So no you don't need if you know you can keep good temps still without one, but it's good to have anyway for those just in case occasions when you can't. Just curious...define 'too cold'? You know beardies are from the desert and water dragons can tolerate down to zero celsius aye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEAnthrax Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Just curious...define 'too cold'? You know beardies are from the desert and water dragons can tolerate down to zero celsius aye? Yes. But it doesn't mean they have to be that cold and are able to deal with temps like that every single night. As well as that they're not all from the desert many live in shruby areas. On top of that they have a better survival rate living in captivity with better controlled temps. The ones in the wild generally don't live anywhere near as long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Yes. But it doesn't mean they have to be that cold and are able to deal with temps like that every single night. As well as that they're not all from the desert many live in shruby areas. On top of that they have a better survival rate living in captivity with better controlled temps. The ones in the wild generally don't live anywhere near as long. Maybe...I am yet to see any heated shrubs yet though in desert or coastal areas in Aussie. There is plenty of research about it being good for lizards to chill a bit at night as it reduces their metabolic rate....makes them live longer. Every knows that reptiles need a heat source, but they need it in order to digest food and be active- not 24/7. If in doubt I think its best to imitate their natural environment where their morphology, behaviour, metabolic enzymes etc etc have evolved over 10's of millions of years. Compare a slow grown red ear or snake neck turtle (natural conditions) to one from a heated tank 24/7 and you'll see that one of them looks a lot healthier than the other....same goes for whistling tree frogs- they thrive in 15-20C, but don't do so well above 25C. I raised my first lot of water dragons with the 24/7 heat and they grew really fast....pity about the low fertility though. Inland BD's, Coastal BD's, Water Dragons all require brumation...not a good idea to heat at night then suddenly stop doing that when you brumate them I would think, yeah? Anyone got an opinion on this or am I just being a cheap a-se? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
repto Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 don`t forget you are dealing with someone who has kept beardies for so long(all of 5-6weeks??)probably bred heaps too???read all the books and internet sites,now a fully fledged expert???? :sml1: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 don`t forget you are dealing with someone who has kept beardies for so long(all of 5-6weeks??)probably bred heaps too???read all the books and internet sites,now a fully fledged expert???? :sml1: How long you been keeping BD's FaceAnthrax? My knowledge is from 12 years of cock ups I have made....don't super heat your dragons and feed them dog food, remember uva/uvb doesn't travel through glass, don't put merc vapours on a thermostat, don't buy made in china bulbs that are not quality tested, don't use sand that has salt in it, don't keep babies of different sizes together and miss a feeding session, don't sell W T F's on TM.....and so many more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 And FaceAnthrax I presume this enclosure is until your WD is sub adult and then you will get a larger one (enclosure that is)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEAnthrax Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Maybe...I am yet to see any heated shrubs yet though in desert or coastal areas in Aussie. There is plenty of research about it being good for lizards to chill a bit at night as it reduces their metabolic rate....makes them live longer. Every knows that reptiles need a heat source, but they need it in order to digest food and be active- not 24/7. If in doubt I think its best to imitate their natural environment where their morphology, behaviour, metabolic enzymes etc etc have evolved over 10's of millions of years. Compare a slow grown red ear or snake neck turtle (natural conditions) to one from a heated tank 24/7 and you'll see that one of them looks a lot healthier than the other....same goes for whistling tree frogs- they thrive in 15-20C, but don't do so well above 25C. I raised my first lot of water dragons with the 24/7 heat and they grew really fast....pity about the low fertility though. Inland BD's, Coastal BD's, Water Dragons all require brumation...not a good idea to heat at night then suddenly stop doing that when you brumate them I would think, yeah? Anyone got an opinion on this or am I just being a cheap a-se? What kind of temps you talking, no one said anything about full heating the whole time . But thats the point of a forum to gain and share more info, NZers are the only people that don't stress so much about their beardies. I'd presume the hot sands/rocks and clay would remain hot into the night in aus, much like the ground here remains warm after the sun does down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEAnthrax Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 don`t forget you are dealing with someone who has kept beardies for so long(all of 5-6weeks??)probably bred heaps too???read all the books and internet sites,now a fully fledged expert???? :sml1: I dislike how rude you constantly are on here repto, your remarks aren't required and they seem to pop up a lot. You're right I haven't had 12years of experience with bearded dragons as others have, doesn't mean I don't have any though. Personally I like to come on and chat and share things and not have people jump down your throat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEAnthrax Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 And FaceAnthrax I presume this enclosure is until your WD is sub adult and then you will get a larger one (enclosure that is)? What enclosure this comment confused me a tad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 What enclosure this comment confused me a tad? 1 metre x .5 x .5 for an animal that grows to .75 long is too small...unless you cut its tail off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEAnthrax Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 1 metre x .5 x .5 for an animal that grows to .75 long is too small...unless you cut its tail off. Might have me mixed up with someone else on this? Also your right on that that size though is far too small for an adult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varanophile Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Might have me mixed up with someone else on this? Also your right on that that size though is far too small for an adult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEAnthrax Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Iassumed, obviously, that this meant that you will heat the enclosure at night. My point is why would you. The warmer an animal is, the higher its metabolic rate, the more free radicals produced, the faster it ages, the sooner it dies. As long as your w/d has access to heat during the day it will digest its food just fine...the exception can be made for hatchlings where it is good to give them the extra spurt to get them out of the fragile stage. Most of the water d's here are NSW form which are in greatest density around the Blue Mountains (it gets bloody cold and often snows). They tolerate the Winter in the mid west of the USA too, this is where the main US breeders are. A decent brumation results in higher breeding success (numbers and fertility than a mild one). Heating at night not required, save some dollars and have a healthier pet. If you super heat and get the calcium and UV slightly wrong then you are way more likely to produce an animal with curled toes and tail issues- personal experience. It's good that you ask questions, even better if you learn from other people's mistakes. Yea with my boys I have a thermostat on at night now (didn't used to went on for winter), it's still set to drop quite low. Just not REALLY low often doesn't even turn on. Last time I mentioned to someone that they could have temps without the use of one, "repto" bit my head off and a had a rage about how I don't have a clue of the basic equipment needed to keep reptiles. So going by him/her you don't either :facepalm: lol. Do you have an album somewhere of your dragons I'd love to see them? Don't really see many reds in NZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Promise not to bite your head off, but I have thermostats on all my enclosures for beardies and leps. Pretty hard to control the temperature without them. A better way than just having a thermostat would be the temperature controllers they have overseas which give a daytime temperature and then a nightime temperature but I have not seen them here. I imagine they would not be cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEAnthrax Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Promise not to bite your head off, but I have thermostats on all my enclosures for beardies and leps. Pretty hard to control the temperature without them. A better way than just having a thermostat would be the temperature controllers they have overseas which give a daytime temperature and then a nightime temperature but I have not seen them here. I imagine they would not be cheap. Yea it would all comes down to the size of the enclosure, where it is, what it's made out of etc. For instance, I have a juv beardy here his viv he has a basking lamp, a ceramic heat lamp and his UV tube. Once warmed up in the morning, it stays at constant appropriate temps without the need for a thermostat, if plugged in it doesn't do anything (but waste power) as the temps are within a degree of the setting always. The only time it varies from that is when we have both computers in that room on and playing pc games, the temp increases by a couple of degrees ambient. Everything within the viv has been measured with multiple thermometers and infrared heat guns. But for ease of mind it's good to have one plugged in anyway . The enclosures in my lounge on the other hand needs them as it get's a little too hot with the different bulbs etc in it. Yea I bought the thermostats I have off ebay, got a really nice digital unit, does heating and cooling as well as displays current temps cost me something like 30-40 delivered. Did all the wiring for it myself, really nice to use. But you can get cheap ones that are something like $13 delivered plug and play. Dunno how amazing they are though. Yea I've seen those ones overseas, the trouble is finding a place that with ship to NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insect Direct Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Once warmed up in the morning, it stays at constant appropriate temps without the need for a thermostat, if plugged in it doesn't do anything (but waste power) as the temps are within a degree of the setting always. i dont get it? once warmed up ... if staying at appropriate temps then you ought to have a thermostat to keep the heat source turned off in turn saving power? my basking bulbs, with thermostat, use to be on less than 50% of the time. thermostats and basking bulbs off at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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