Goldie Posted September 27, 2002 Report Share Posted September 27, 2002 Pssssst Rob , Rob.................get up plse..............WHAT did Andrew buy???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted September 27, 2002 Report Share Posted September 27, 2002 :-? Oppps, just found page two and discovered what Andrew bought. So you can go back to sleep Rob :oops: oh my well it is rather early in the morning - after a hard week. G1 on the killifish Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 10, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Great news (for me he he) Sometime this week I am puchasing and taking possesion of 40 two foot all glass tanks :) This will bring my tank stock to 47 he he. Decided to use the old bach for my fishroom. Now at approx 110lbs each, my only worry is the floor, but then again I have to worry about the ....... worry.... worry.... worry... Isn't it GREAT Getting there slowly.... the bug has bitten once again. Looks like I'm gonna need to work on my DIY heating system. Happy Days are REALLY here :) At Last But we ain't finished yet Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted November 10, 2002 Report Share Posted November 10, 2002 Ahh didn't your wife have other plans for that bach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 11, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Hi Caryl, No... Not my good wife, but my son has vacated it (several times I might add) and this time it seems to be for good, so ....... HERE COMES BILL'S FISHROOM :) It even has a hot water cylinder ready for conversion GEEZ.... I forgot your disk... must do that tomorrow :oops: Regards, Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 good to hear are they new or 2nd hand i looking at buy 19 2.5footer 2nd hand at the mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 11, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Hi Dennis, Brand new. Is that 19 tanks at 2.5 foot. ? You must have got the bug as well he he Regards, Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 yes bit i not geting the the guy keep puting the pice up and they had holes in the back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 11, 2002 Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Let us know how the hot water heating works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 11, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2002 Hi Dennis, Sounds as if the tanks might have had a single heating system, or a single filtration setup at some time. So what are you going to breed in the tanks ? Hi Ira, Let us know how the hot water heating works It's gonna mean a lotta work, and possibly some problems I haven't thought of along the way, but I intend to set up at least ten as a trial unit to evaluate the benefits or pitfalls. I'm trialing ten because I can get ten in a line easily on one level. Because they will be mainly breeding units I may have to use an additional heater on the odd one if the occasion arises. Also I need to make the system on a modular basis so that I can easily extend the pipes as more tanks are added. I will be more than pleased to post the results once I get some Regards, Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 23, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2002 Been reading a good book that was lent to me called "Radiant Floor Heating With Hot Water" by John A Wills. Real technical stuff that goes into great detail about radiant heating using copper pipes laid in concrete. After reading the book twice, I re-read much of it and decided I was going a bit overboard using a domestic hot water system for my tank heating, although I have a ten gallon one that I intend using . Looking at the setup I envisage, each run of ten tanks in a line will require less than a single gallon of water to be circulating at any given time. The book refers to using Butyl piping, which I have a great deal of, so as a trial during the next week or so I am going to set up a row of ten tanks at ground level (the coldest area) and use the following method. I intend to rest the tanks in a shallow trough of around four inches deep. This trough will be filled with fine sand, and the feed and return pipes will be buried in this. The pipes will be 25mm diam. The thermal properties of the sand will retain the heat for an extended period which will reduce the time between the pump cycles when the hot water is actually being pumped through the pipes. The heating source will be on a much smaller scale, being a maximum of ten gallons. The bach (cum fishroom) gets really hot in the summer, and I can see that my problems will not be "heating" the tanks, but "cooling" them. Using this method I can pump cold water through the same system which would prevent the tanks from overheating. The sand trough will solve one of my temporary problems, which is an uneven floor, and if the trials prove successful I intend to lift the whole floor and set the stands in concrete footings directly into the ground. These will be made in such a way that the floor can be relaid without too much hassle. I have also built an automatic water changing system that I am now testing on a stand alone unit. It detects low water levels due to evaporation and automatically tops up the tanks from a reserve of preaged heated water. This reserve will be eliminated in the near future, as other methods are being tested. After a predetermined number of days it removes a given preset percentage of water and tops the tank up to a fixed level, all unaided. Several safety factors are built into the circuitry to prevent the removal of too much water and also overfilling. With plans for 100 tanks by early next year (I now have 47) I felt this was something that needed solving as one of my pet hates is doing water changes Once the tanks are installed I will try to take some pics. Regards, Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted November 23, 2002 Report Share Posted November 23, 2002 You have been a busy boy. I will be interested to see how your plan works out. Pics would be good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted November 23, 2002 Report Share Posted November 23, 2002 I agree Caryl Pegasus how about a working bee at your place where we can all gather and see how it all works. At Napier I was impressed with the heating of all those tanks, I think it was the underpad method. u can be sure I will be keeping an eye on this posting to see how you are getting on with it all. Whew all those little details that make a simple project a complicated one. Best wishes with it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 24, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2002 Hey... Thanks for the offer Goldie, ha ha. I'm a very private person, and even more so now after reading the posts on someone having their fish taken. As the ad says... "These things take time" and my progress is pretty slow for several reasons, but I will certainly take some pics when I have some results. Regards, Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 24, 2002 Report Share Posted November 24, 2002 Hmmm, Sand, that's a good idea. I was was thinking you needed something other than just airspace under the tanks to conduct the heat through. Hadn't thought of sand though. Definitely would be cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 I have only briefly skimmed this but THANKS this is the one I was looking for. Ok just one thought on this so I can stop it rattling around in my head, In regards to copper pipe, I noticed the plumber when he installed our new ststem used black plastic piping.... could this be useful here? With the pipes running through the water rather than under the tanks? If the HWsystem had a thermostat, or one installed somewhere, the temp could be "set and forget". I think the thermostats or temp regulators are a seperate thing as I remember we had the option to have one installed on our household system to prevent accidental scolds. Also reminds me of how they warm the water for heated pools by circulating water through black pipe or rubber on the roof of the house where it is heated by the sun. Well that was three thoughts, sorry too many ideas and no facts. I don't want a hot room either Pegasus, and I think this hotwater thing is worth running with, if I can scrounge the materials, and it ends up being a flop, then not much harm done, but if it works out....BONUS!!! And I can get more tanks Di Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Hi Dianna,... you said : In regards to copper pipe, I noticed the plumber when he installed our new ststem used black plastic piping.... could this be useful here? With the pipes running through the water rather than under the tanks? Plumbers would only use the black piping (Alkathene) for low pressure "cold" water syatems, and would never connect them directly to the HW cylinder... even for the cold side. However, on saying that, it was my intention to use the black alkathene piping for the multiple tank heating idea, mainly because the heat factor would be very low, and the heat tranfer would be more than adequate... plus of course the cost of copper pipe is more than I would like to pay . The piping could be routed through the tanks via bends, elbow, tee, etc, but these fittings are not cheap, so laying the pipes in sand seemed like a good option, despite the fact that I have hundreds of metres and heaps of fittings laying around the farm. I think the thermostats or temp regulators are a seperate thing In the HWCyl they are seperate items. I don't want a hot room either Pegasus This was my main reason for opting for this method in preference to heating the fishroom. I haven't even had time to set a trial run of this design up yet, but all the materials are there in the fishroom just waiting for some action AS another post I made mentioned... (might be above this somewhere) but I read a book recently on underfloor heating which went into great detail about tranferance of heat, and next to concrete, which was rated very high, sand seemed a good option. Regards, Bill (Pegasus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interfecus Posted January 25, 2003 Report Share Posted January 25, 2003 Firstly, using black plastic piping would probably be a bad idea. Black objects may absorb heat well but they also radiate infrared heat more than other colours too (I think). I would suggest adding solar heating if possible. Black pipes on the roof can be made to absorb sunlight and can also be self-pumping using convection currents. Of course, to have elevated solar heating working by convection you'd need to have a closed pipe system not mixing with the actual heating tray but running through pipes acting as a heat transfer. You should run this counter-current to the pump outlet from the tray leading to the electric heater. After assembly you would have greatly decreased heating costs. (http://www26.brinkster.com/interfec/heat.gif) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midas Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Black objects may absorb heat well but they also radiate infrared heat more than other colours too (I think). Nope, I'm afraid not. Black objects radiate heat less than other colours, thats how they absorb heat faster than other colours. Likewise white objects radiate more than other colours so they absorb heat slower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Actually, it's a rule of thermodynamics? But, basically, any object that absorbs infrared radiation easily will also emit it easily. Black body radiation? I'm not sure of the exact terminology. But, for example, the planes the SR-71 and X-15 are both painted black. Not for camoflague purposes, but because black gives off heat easier. Enclosed fireplaces too, they're black because that gives off radiation better. White does the opposite, it absorbs less and gives off less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 plumbers would only use black piping.....for low pressure......and would never connect them directly to the HW cylinder.... I had a look at our new HWsystem and it is connected to black pipe. I asked about this and was told that they only use black piping for all plumbing now, even hot. For sharp bends they use elbows etc, but generally it is bent onto shape. For new houses they run it through the frames before the internal wall cladding goes on. They don't use copper pipe much here if even at all. I can find out exactly what the stuff is called and grill "dear old dad" a bit more if anyone is interested in actual details, I'm sorry that this is a bit vague and very much 'hear say' at the moment. But just in answer to not using it for hot water... seems you can and they do. Had to laugh, in answer to my questions to Dad(the electrician) about using HWsystem to heat tanks he said, "thats why they breed tropical fish in Queensland (tropics) why don't you breed goldfish?" :lol: :lol: :lol: Dianna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1 Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Hi all As Ira said, black gives off heat. That is the reason for "black" pot belly stoves. And also the reason why some countries wear black dresses. It radiates heat. And if you paint the hotwaterservice pipes black, then you would waste a lot of heat. Simple physics. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 I've never seen a country wearing a dress, must have taken a lot of material! :lol: Has someone painted parts of Melbourne black? 44 degrees is a bit hot isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted January 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 Hi Dianna, The "black" piping could be made of Butyl, which uses compression fittings as against the ones for the black alkathene pipe. Butyl piping is usually grey, not black, and the black pipes that your plumber used would not be of alkathene. Ira... You are quite correct. Look inside all solar panels... Black. Two water filled pipes laid in the hot sun, one white, one black. The black one would become too hot to touch in a short while, but the white one would remain relativly cool. I shall be using "Black" pipe in my project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interfecus Posted January 27, 2003 Report Share Posted January 27, 2003 They probably use plastic piping instead of the copper piping in plumbing because copper is an excellent conductor of heat and would therefore lose heat to the air more because of conduction than the black plastic would lose by radiation. White piping would probably be best for a system like this though as it barely radiates and conducts less than metal piping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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