hamilton 400

[GZ_Loach]

lexus is basically toyota, they have v8 utes?

I find motorsport around tracks is boring, off road or tarmac rally is alot more fun to watch

[smidey]

The bit i find hard case is engine wise, a new 6.0 holden ss has 260kw (348hp) & the smaller 5.4 xr8 has 290kw (389hp).

Compare the fpv against an hsv and the ford is 315 or 335kw & the 6.2 hsv is 317 or 325kw.

they are simply power outputs that each manufacturer has chosen to provide, they have nothing to do with the maximum power each brand can produce.

The ford is less common than the holden which is good.

so less people buy the ford/fpv? lots more people choose to buy the hsv/holden? I sell cars for a living & i am yet to hear a marketing strategy of keeping a car less common from any manufacturer.

Rear suspension geometry is better on the falcon and you cant beat the sla or wishbone setup on the front especially for enthusiastic driving.

correct me if i'm wrong but you can beat the wishbone, the holdens which have macpherson struts did easily that's why they changed the rules so that holden have to fit the wishbones & make it more of an even competition.

[suphew]

i am yet to hear a marketing strategy of keeping a car less common from any manufacturer.

You sell cars and you haven't heard of limited addition runs that pretty much all car company's do? Then of course there are all the sports and exotic manufacturer's like Lamborghini and Bentley that limit and number all their cars to keep the prices high.

[suphew]

correct me if i'm wrong but you can beat the wishbone, the holdens which have macpherson struts did easily that's why they changed the rules so that holden have to fit the wishbones & make it more of an even competition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacPherson_strut

The first car to feature MacPherson struts was the 1949 Ford Vedette

MacPherson struts consist of a wishbone or a substantial compression link.....

[Bishop]

Life is too short to debate over Fords n Holdens.

Do they go.

Do they go fast.

Do they go sideways.

Case closed.

[Joshlikesfish]

Life is too short to debate over Fords n Holdens.

That's why you just take my Honda integra 1992 box edition :lol:

[smidey]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacPherson_strut

the holdens don't have a wishbone part so they must be in the general term of substantial compression link

I will base this off my VN model commodore. their front suspension is set up with a macpherson strut which is supported by a control arm. the control arm is a single sectional type member which has additional support from the sway bar & a radius rod so there is no wishbone part at all. macpherson struts are the shock/damper with a spring encompassing it which suspend the car creating its ride height firstly then having the ability to compress the damper when bumps are hit to enable the chassis to remain level & the spring is for expanding the damper back out.

wishbone refers to components that have the "wishbone" shape, this link shows a "double wishbone" as it has two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Doubl ... ension.jpg

[smidey]

You sell cars and you haven't heard of limited addition runs that pretty much all car company's do?

we sell hyundai, nissan & vw & those three don't have any limited eddition models. some are taken off the market for a period of time if they run out of stock but are replaced when they can supply. At the moment the VW polo gti is unavailable due to more orders than stock so they are offering the cross polo in lieu until more gti's are available. nissan doesn't import some models here now that we used to get because they didn't sell, but they are available in other countries.

the discussion was about fords/fpv's which i am confident in saying that they aren't limited edition models in the context of a special model & only 50 units made, i'm sure they didn't make as many as the xr6/8 but that will be due to previous market demand. if the FPV's are less common that the HSV's (which i don't know if they are or not statistically) it would be down to the fact that more people like the HSV's & not because HSV made more. if you make lots of something then you still have to sell them which means people must like them & be willing to part with their $ to have one.

we also sell a brand of car named Geely, they aren't common & that is not because they are a limited edition or there are not many made. it is because people test drive them & simply do not like them & they are easily the cheapest cars available. I also suppose that every car is a limited edition as there are not infinate numbers of them, it depends on how you want to argue the point.

Then of course there are all the sports and exotic manufacturer's like Lamborghini and Bentley that limit and number all their cars to keep the prices high.

so you think they are in limited numbers so they can keep the price high? the price is generally determined by the build cost which is directly relevant to the design & development cost, parts & labour it takes to build the machine. if you spend 100 million in design & set up & only sell 1000 cars then the cost per unit will be very high. If you sell 1,000,000 cars then the set up cost per unit is much lower. I think that if there were 10,000 people in every country that would buy a lambo then they would make that many. the facts are that there are not that number of people so there cost per unit is very high hence the high buy price.

[suphew]

we sell hyundai, nissan & vw & those three don't have any limited eddition models.

Doing a quick google on "Nissan limited addition" gives me a, 40th anniversary 370z, Limited edition GT-R SpecV, Murano Limited edition. Hyundai gives me a Sonata limited edition, Genesis Coupe, Coupe TSIII. VW do anniversary limited addition golfs, special addition beetles........

the discussion was about fords/fpv's which i am confident in saying that they aren't limited edition models in the context of a special model

Who could forget the limited edition Brock Commodore or the Focus RS500. Again google gives up a number of Ford limited additions. Fiesta sports, Territory's, Focus

so you think they are in limited numbers so they can keep the price high?

And sports cars, F50 349 made, McLaren F1 106 made, both worth many time more now than when they were made. Do you really think they couldn't have sold far more of these if they wanted to?

[suphew]

if the FPV's are less common that the HSV's (which i don't know if they are or not statistically) it would be down to the fact that more people like the HSV's & not because HSV made more.

Or because the marketing is better, or the pricing, or the dealer network, or historic shopping habits (check out how many fords vs holdens are sold in the rest of the world). Or it could just be because the performance vehicle market is pretty limited and ford just doesn't bother spending a whole lot of energy on it. I'd say that people liking HSV's more could have very little to do with the numbers.

[Snowman]

The less is better theory is highlighted by the old GT falcons, pay $5000 for a brand new one but $500,000+ for one now.

Selling more in some cases is good but only for the parent companys pockets, when holden first introduced the clubsport it was a case of wow look at that, thats cool, but now the things are everywhere so are nothing more special than just a V8 commodore, there arent any where near as many GTP Falcons around which makes you look at them, the stripes being an idenitfying mark similar to the bonnet bulge indentifiying a V8 falcon.

I have never seen a real race car using struts unless its a road car with a cage, (have a look at the front suspension of an F1 car or Indy car) the strut setup goes through to many unwanted camber & caster changes as it goes up and down. The SLA system gives you a lot more control over what changes you want to happen during jounce & rebound. The strut will also show flex (which is why the commodore race car now has wishbones) especially when under the loading a slick tyre can place on it.

Vw & hyundai are not particularly well known for performance, ive been working on cars for over 25 years and wouldnt own either of them, Nissan on the other hand does have had and do have some good cars, never been my flavour but cant deny the success of the skyline over the years.

[smidey]

Doing a quick google on "Nissan limited addition" gives me a, 40th anniversary 370z, Limited edition GT-R SpecV, Murano Limited edition. Hyundai gives me a Sonata limited edition, Genesis Coupe, Coupe TSIII. VW do anniversary limited addition golfs, special addition beetles........

Who could forget the limited edition Brock Commodore or the Focus RS500. Again google gives up a number of Ford limited additions. Fiesta sports, Territory's, Focus

And sports cars, F50 349 made, McLaren F1 106 made, both worth many time more now than when they were made. Do you really think they couldn't have sold far more of these if they wanted to?

historically there were plenty of truely great limited editions, these days very few if any that i know of.

limited edition is simply a marketing angle trying to sell more, i have seen limited editions when they aren't really that at all, greg Murphy Commodore for one. often they have had a particular spec of car that hasn't sold as well as projected so have re-marketed it with different wheels, some different stickers & maybe a steering wheel but the facts are the are just the same car aside from that & if they could sell 1000 or more of them they would just keep supplying. :lol: clearly this marketing angle works for you but if you break down the facts of limited editions these days they are the smae base model car with a few minor changes. The Tommi Mäkinen limited edition Evo 6.5 was not allowed to be registered in Australia as the govt deemed it to be the same as the Evo 6 which already had its alloted registrations. I read an article about this when a guy imported one into australia from japan & couldn't register it until a evo 6 was de-registered. the aus govt realised it was teh same car with a different paint job & stickers, marketing at is best.

[smidey]

The less is better theory is highlighted by the old GT falcons, pay $5000 for a brand new one but $500,000+ for one now.

Selling more in some cases is good but only for the parent companys pockets, when holden first introduced the clubsport it was a case of wow look at that, thats cool, but now the things are everywhere so are nothing more special than just a V8 commodore, there arent any where near as many GTP Falcons around which makes you look at them, the stripes being an idenitfying mark similar to the bonnet bulge indentifiying a V8 falcon.

I have never seen a real race car using struts unless its a road car with a cage, (have a look at the front suspension of an F1 car or Indy car) the strut setup goes through to many unwanted camber & caster changes as it goes up and down. The SLA system gives you a lot more control over what changes you want to happen during jounce & rebound. The strut will also show flex (which is why the commodore race car now has wishbones) especially when under the loading a slick tyre can place on it.

i thought AVESCO changed the rules so the holdens had to fit wishbones? when they did they were off the pace for quite a while before they got it right. the super cars used to be road cars with cages but now with all teh rules they are almost purposed scratch built cars, i don't know about the falcon but the VE commie has to have the body shortened in length & height to comply with the rules so they aren't racing holden vs ford any more at all.