Still on the fence on what to get.

[DennisP]

After visiting organism today, to check out some firemouths, I stumbled upon some G. surinamensis. (Red striped earth eater)

The sign or label stated that they reach 20cm but I had originally disregarded them as an option as I thought they were about 30cm. After searching the interwebz I find this: "True Geophagus Surinamenses are very rarely seen in the US aquarium, if ever."

If this is true, I would assume this applies to NZ as well. So my question is, would these be the real deal and is the sign wrong? Or are they just said to be G. surinamenses but actually a variant and the sign saying 20cm is correct?

Don't want to get my hopes up of getting some yet so I'm looking for someone with some experience.

Otherwise, the Firemouths they had there are looking good.

Tank is a 55g Juwel Rio, tank mates will be a pleco and possibly a knifefish.

[hovmoller]

It will most likely be Geophagus altifrons... Do they look like my avatar?

The "surinamensis" name is used for a group of several species and because Geophagus surinamensis is on the "allow to be imported" list here in NZ and altifrons is not it is still being sold as surinamensis.. That list should be updated! SOON!

I think they can easily reach 25cm under the right circumstances and they get quite territorial and needs a large space with time out places..

[DennisP]

They were still quite small so not too colourful. They were covered in little blue/silver shiney spots is all I can remember. Which I guess is pretty universal among geos.

[Navarre]

When you get time come have a look in my room

You will see a range of stuff that might get you off the fence

Navarre

[hovmoller]

Would they go in the 240 Juwel rio?

If so I would reckommend no more than 4-5 and as soon as a couple is established get rid of the rest otherwise there will be trouble.. also you would need sand substrate..

Planning on any other fish in there?

[DennisP]

When you get time come have a look in my room

You will see a range of stuff that might get you off the fence

Navarre

:lol: That might be necessary! Too many options, as I will have the money I want to make the right decision.

Would they go in the 240 Juwel rio?

If so I would reckommend no more than 4-5 and as soon as a couple is established get rid of the rest otherwise there will be trouble.. also you would need sand substrate..

Planning on any other fish in there?

Edited OP to answer these questions, yes they would go in there. Tank mates would be just a pleco and probably not much else.

[hovmoller]

You can quite happily keep a little flok of tetras with them...to calm the geos a bit. Just not the small ones like neons (they will get snatched in the darkness of night)

I have kept red phantoms and glowlights succesfully with mine for a year now.

[DennisP]

I see.

So what do you guys think? A few of these in the 240 would work? Or not?

[hovmoller]

Sure why not? with some sand, a few rocks and driftwood a pleco and maybe some tetras.

But you need to have a plan on how to get rid of some of them once territorial behavior starts.

They will most likely remodel your tank ie. shift the sand around in big piles.. so no plants.. unless you use floating plants which would give them some shade as well from the relatively bright light of a Juwel Rio. They definitely prefer dim light.

[DennisP]

Okay

[David R]

After searching the interwebz I find this: "True Geophagus Surinamenses are very rarely seen in the US aquarium, if ever."

If this is true, I would assume this applies to NZ as well. So my question is, would these be the real deal and is the sign wrong? Or are they just said to be G. surinamenses but actually a variant and the sign saying 20cm is correct?

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46745&p=508042&hilit=surinamensis#p508042 that first paragraph should give you the general gist of it. I doubt we've ever seen the true surinamensis here, ours are most likely altifrons. As for which variety, some have said "Rio Tapajos", but I think its more likely to be "Pond #4, Kong Ho fish farm Malaysia".

Interestingly though, I have 14 of them, 5 purchased recently from HFF as larger specimens that the wholesaler has been holding onto for some time, and the rest are more recent imports. There are some significant differences between the two, I'd love to get some good pics of them and get the experts to look at them, but my camera skills are rather lacking.

As for your original question, you could probably keep a pair/trio in that tank hapily, although some would say you need a tank with a bigger footprint. S. leucosticta (aka jurupari) would be a better option for your tank size, and there are plenty of smaller species that would work well if we could get them (eg the red head tapajos). This is a good site for eartheater info; http://eartheaters.qldaf.com/index.php?page=main

[DennisP]

Thanks Dave.

Good info.

[David R]

One of my favourite fish, here's a clip of my group;

I agree with hovmollers suggestion, a small group of altifrons, group of tetras, and a couple of smaller plecs and/or whiptails and/or corys. Sandy substrate, driftwood, even a bit of leaf litter. 8)

[hovmoller]

David have you experienced much "wife beating" with your altifrons? or maybe your group is so large that agression is directed outwards..

I have a large pair left of my group of 6 that have spawned several times but ate the fry and now the female is in quarantine from severe attacks from the male. I am sure when I put her back he will beat her up again.

[David R]

There's a bit of pecking occasionally, but I haven't actually seen any signs of breeding yet, which surprises me a bit as the larger ones are getting up to the right size. I was hoping to be able to sex them and pick a favourable ratio of M:F to put in the big tank to avoid having to try catch them later on, but I think I'm just going to dump them all in there and see what happens.

Do you know what sex the other 4 are? How big are they?

[hovmoller]

I don't have the other 4 anymore...

Sad story, goes like this:

one died, was always the little one with big eyes thin skull etc. bad genes I think.

Then two pairs formed and divided my 300L in two.. no room for the 5th so he/she went back to HFF. Both these pairs had fry several times but ate them..

Then I seperated the pairs. one in the 300L and one in a 400L.. wanted to see which pair turned out to be the best parents.

Then my juwel heater malfunctioned and cooked the pair in the 300L along with 10 Sterbai Corys. Worst fish day ever

One pair left.. but now the wife beating has gone too far. Thinking of some net divider arrangement that might allow spawning to take place but keep them appart. Not sure what to do yet. Was hoping for a complete natural breeding/raising of fry.

Anyway regarding male/female I found with mine that it was definitely the bigger ones and then ones with the longest fin extensions that turned out to be the males.

I'm following your big tank thread on MFK with great interrest. Sorry to hear about your sump problems

[firenzenz]

Red head Tapajos!

If they were any cooler they'd be Africans

[David R]

:lol:

Hovmoller how much of a size difference is there between them? The only thing I could suggest is adding more females and rearranging the tank, but finding breeding-sized females could be difficult. I hope thats not a sign of whats coming for my tank!

[hovmoller]

Yeah there is quite a size difference between them because she was bullied up in a corner most of the time while he was eating.

I think he has reached that 15cm mark (with 6-7cm fin extensions!) while she is only around 10-11cm... I'm feeding her heaps now and him only enough to get by to try to get her up to size. (but she also has to regrow a tale that was litterally completely gone after a bacterial/fungal infection as a result of his attacks! Tale is doing well now though)

I am thinking that isolating a pair in not necessarily a good idea. If you keep them in a community the male can direct his attacks to a larger group instead of his wife.. but of course it makes raising fry more difficult.. I need a tank the size of yours!!!