danval Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Hi all. I recently purchased a pair of double reds and they settled into their tank nicely. I recently added oak leaves to lower the PH. The males only purpose in life seems to be to harrass the female constantly. She hides amongst the foliage and merely has to poke her head out and there he is waiting in ambush. He flares from a distance then dives in at her at a hundred miles an hour. Any ideas on what to do other than seperate her to another tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 How big is the tank? And how many hiding places do you have? Unfortunately it is just what male apistos do they are nasty to females, if you think that is nasty you should see how the female gets when she lays Sometimes adding dither fish like guppies or danios or something like that for them to take their agro out on can help, otherwise a descent sized tank and lots of hiding places, separating them if she is getting injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 I think the tank is about 180l and I have a few neons which he occasionally chases around. The leaf litter is quite thick so she has ample hiding places but he is a relentless stalker! When I first introduced her to the tank she was a pale yellow colour but now is darkish with a dark horizontal line down her body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 In a 180L tank I would add some more caves/rockwork/plants and maybe another female or 2 to spread the aggression on the single female. This can backfire if you don't provide enough hiding places as the least dominant female can get it from the male and most dominant female. Failing that just keep an eye on them and remove or separate her if things go too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Ok thanks ryanjury. There is no actual damage to the female at this stage but will keep a close eye on her. Have a few caves already but will add some more plants and maybe another female after next pay as these are $45 dollars each at our local pet store but in saying that they are well worth it as they are full of character and an awesome looking fish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 There shouldn't be any damage to the female. What's happening is pretty normal. However, when the female starts showing her belly to the male you'll know to remove the male because after that the tables may turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Hi phoenix44. She has been showing her belly on ocassions but it seems an almost submissive pose and she promptly dives for cover but i will continue to monitor for any retaliation. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 she has probably got eggs hidden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 The males will chase the females and sometimes quite aggressively. They have been known to kill them but that is pretty rare, especially in a tank that big. As P44 said that once the female lays things will change drastically. Females will fight and attack anything close. They will definitely kill the male if he cant get far enough away. They are nasty and fearless when it comes to protecting their young. I have seen them taking on full grown angels or discus by swimming under the gill plates and biting them on the soft exposed tissue. You should be fine in a 180ltr tank especially if you have lots of hiding places. Usually you run into trouble if they are in a small breeding tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 she has probably got eggs hidden. She does not appear to be sticking to any particular area of the tank. Would she not stay with the eggs and tend them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 The males will chase the females and sometimes quite aggressively. They have been known to kill them but that is pretty rare, especially in a tank that big. As P44 said that once the female lays things will change drastically. Females will fight and attack anything close. They will definitely kill the male if he cant get far enough away. They are nasty and fearless when it comes to protecting their young. I have seen them taking on full grown angels or discus by swimming under the gill plates and biting them on the soft exposed tissue. You should be fine in a 180ltr tank especially if you have lots of hiding places. Usually you run into trouble if they are in a small breeding tank. Thanks Bilbo. I appreciate your guys experienced advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 I would say she hasn't got eggs you will notice her change colour and stay coloured up and she wont tolerate the male at all, and yeah she will hang around and protect them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 The second female I had appeared normal when the male was about and didn't kill him or go bright yellow. she would flash her belly when the male was near, and didn't kill him. she had babies in the pot. The first female was a devil and nearly killed the first male and did the tell tale signs that you would expect to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 she would flash her belly when the male was near, and didn't kill him Yeah, she appears to be doing alot of this but eventually he attacks her and she dives for cover only to appear and approach him cautiously, going through the same process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 check for eggs.... you never know. they are not very "coupley" fish. female lays eggs. male does his job. no more "relationship" ... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 check for eggs.... you never know. Had a bit of a look but can't see any eggs. They still seem to be courting on and off. She doesn't seem to be as shy as she is coming out more often and the male seems to court for longer before he chases her away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunbird73 Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 I am reading with interest as I would like some one day - but are you talking about agassizi or cacatuoides? As they can both be called double red can't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 lol that would be funny.. I had assumed due to availability at the moment they were agassizi, but you can get double/tripple red cockatoos as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 I am talking agasazzi. cockatoos aren't half as agro as agasazzi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 Yeah. It's the agassizi that I was refering to. Beautiful fish. I would post a pic but I cant seem to get a decent one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 My male and female have disappeared amongst the leaf litter for the last few hours. Could this indicate that they could be spawning? The male is usually out and about all the time but there is no sign of him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 To answer my own post.... Yay, she must have spawned because the roles have reversed and she is now the agressor, darting out from the leaf litter to ward off the male. She never did turn the typical yellow colour but is paler. Would it be advisable to remove the male now?. Should I also remove the neons as they may eat the fry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 All tetras are opportunistic and will pick off the fry if they can. They are fast as well so I would have them out. Remember each baby is potentially worth $10 - $20 and a $3 neon can eat quite a few of them. In a biggish tank or in the wild the role of the male agassizi is to guard the territories of all his females. Each female should have at least 300x300mm and up to 500x500mm to herself and the male can be at least that far away. In a standard 2' tank there isn't enough space for this process so that's why males get killed. If you are worried then definitely remove the male but do it carefully so you don't upset your female. Never remove the eggs and leave the pair together even in a big tank because she has nothing to protect so no territory restrictions and she will be grouchy. My last trio spawned in a 1 mtr by 500mm tank and they were fine all together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 To answer my own post.... Yay, she must have spawned because the roles have reversed and she is now the agressor, darting out from the leaf litter to ward off the male. She never did turn the typical yellow colour but is paler. Would it be advisable to remove the male now?. Should I also remove the neons as they may eat the fry? yep. take the male out. give it 2-3 days and you might find that she is bringing the wrigglers out for an outing. I didn't know I had eggs in the tank until I saw the babies. Only saw the male staying away the second time, and the first male hidden near the heater. +1 to what Bilbo just said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danval Posted August 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Thanks Bilbo and P44! Have removed the male (hard to catch!) without disturbing the female. Getting late now so will remove the neons tomorrow. Do I feed her as per normal while she is guarding the eggs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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