TimTam22 Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 Hey, It's been a very long time since I've been on here....Hello again! I introduced a sick fish(discus) about a month ago with hexamita (found this out after the fact) to my tank without Quarantining it!!!! :evil: I could kick myself over and over but its too late now.... Anyhoo I euthanized the sick fish as it was very skinny and not eating so I felt it was the most humane thing to do, I am now worried about my other 3 3inch ish sized discus, all currently eating and fat and healthy looking. I have had these ones about a year... my ph is about 6.7ish 200ltr tank (will upgrade at some stage if we get through this) planted, drift wood etc, other fish cardinals, clown loaches, congos, albino brislenoses, 1 kuhli and a panda cory, all been in together for a yearish. They are feed tetracolour granuals and frozen bloodworm, and have recently started feeding them a frozen pea mix with a garlic additive. They have been wormed in the last two weeks also, as I thought the sick one had tape worm. They get a 25-50% water change at least weekly. I noticed a whitish looking poo from the largest one a few nights ago so I'm thinking it's the best idea to treat the tank to attempt to sort the problem before it gets to bad. Do you think this is the best thing to do? What is the Metronidazole routine? (dose rate, length and water changes etc)? Would be great to get an answer asap as I would like to ge the treatment from the vet tomorrow. Thanks in advance, Tam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 Its been a while but I think its 400mg per 50 ltrs or even better in food at 100mg per 10 grams of food. In food make a mixture up and feed only that for at least 3 days. In water if the fish i sno longer eating it ideally should be treated and then a 100% water change every 8 hours for 3 days but I think 1 dose and 1 x 100% water change per 24hours also works ok. Hopefully Jen will come along to fix up any errors I might have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTam22 Posted July 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 What sort of food is it best mixed with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 There is some information here: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=43107&p=467724&hilit=metronidazole#p467724 You can also try injecting the medication into mealworms, fly larvae, bits of shrimp, gel foods etc. Or as a last resort, soak the food in the medication and feed it out. There are several effective dose rates for this drug depending on what condition your are treating for. It comes in tablets and used to also come in a liquid suspension (which is also not very soluble in water). Oral is the best route and it can be challenging to find the body weight for a discus based on length alone so a gram scale would be useful (place a small container of water on the scales and then add the fish - subtract the weight/volume of the water to get the weight of the fish). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim r Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 I use liquid form from the vet (they will decide what strenght is allowed)then soak freeze dried brine shrimp for a couple of minutes. This method has always worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplants Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 This is the treatment regime I have followed in the past (and at this very moment unfortunately). Please note that this is the regime I have found safe and effective in my tanks, I checked the dose rates and process with my vet. Please do your own research. The level of Metro in the food mix is relatively high. In food: 1 x Trichozole tablet (200mg Metronidazole) from vet 5 x cubes of frozen brine shrimp some flake and colourbits 1/4 tsp of Davis Gelatine Alu foil - Thaw the shrimp in a steel bowl, add small quantity of flake/colourbits (just enough to start to soak up the liquid). - Grind the Trichozole into a fine powder with a mortar and pestle and add to the shrimp and dry food, mix very well. - Float bowl in sink with water of approx 40 degrees, until mix just feels warm. This mix is approximately 10mls in total. - sprinkle Gelatine and mix quickly. - pour/spoon mix into pre-prepared dish (made by folding the alu foil). - refrigerate until solid. - cut up and feed to fish exclusively for 3-4 days - handfeeding the suspects if necessary. In Tank: If the fish are not eating. (I am currently using this process for a fish that has white, stringy faeces) - large w/c of 50% or more first - add Epsom salts at the rate of 1 x 20ml tbsp per 10l, half on day 1 and half on day 3 - using liquid suspension (500mg Metronidazole) pour into tank (75l actual volume) on Days 1, 3 and 5. No w/c, no carbon. - large w/c day 6 or 7 - if the fish recovers it will start eating in a week or so, sometimes sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 One thing to keep in mind, in clinical environments we would rarely dose an animal in food without using a proper dose rate. A dose rate is usually the weight of the drug (e.g. milligrams) that should be administered to the weight/surface area of the animal (e.g. grams). The reason is because animals will often eat more or less than they need meaning they can get a wide variation of the recommended dose rate and either result could have detrimental effects. The other thing to keep in mind is that without diagnostic testing we are just guessing at the cause of the problem, and thus hoping that the medication will work. Remember, just because there is anecdotal evidence of a dose rate that 'works' doesn't mean that it actually did anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplants Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 One thing to keep in mind, in clinical environments we would rarely dose an animal in food without using a proper dose rate. A dose rate is usually the weight of the drug (e.g. milligrams) that should be administered to the weight/surface area of the animal (e.g. grams). The reason is because animals will often eat more or less than they need meaning they can get a wide variation of the recommended dose rate and either result could have detrimental effects. The other thing to keep in mind is that without diagnostic testing we are just guessing at the cause of the problem, and thus hoping that the medication will work. Remember, just because there is anecdotal evidence of a dose rate that 'works' doesn't mean that it actually did anything at all. Agreed. I should have probably mentioned the food dose rate, as when I used the food technique it was for an individual adult discus, and the dose was based on feeding that fish exclusively (by hand) after estimating the weight of the fish in consultation with my vet. I suppose I was a bit frugal with the conditions, notes and disclaimers - I hope that the bit in red is sufficient to ensure readers draw their own conclusions. But thank you Jen, for making it a lot clearer and less ambiguous, and for pointing out the pitfalls of anecdotal, non-diagnostic evidence. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTam22 Posted July 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2010 Thanks for the replies, How long after treating with prazi should I start the treatment in the food? Does it matter if it slightly overlaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted July 24, 2010 Report Share Posted July 24, 2010 It shouldn't matter if they overlap. Praziquantel can be used in conjunction with many other drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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