Setting up a new tank

[Phillz]

I am going to set up a new tank today, and want to make sure I get the basics right

*I will fill it with water from our tank supply (as we have no other supply LOL.)

*I have a sponge filter that I will put in.

*I have a heater (but that doesn't have to be on until a day or 2 before the fish go in, right?)

*I have 4 WCMM, and was thinking of putting them in first, to help cycle the tank, when would be a good time to do that?

*The bottom of the tank will be bare to start with, but was thinking of getting small river rocks which are readily available to me.

Anything important that I have missed?

Any tips would be appreciated.

[Rob]

Phillz - since you already have another tank use some of the water from it to set up the new tank (ie for the new tank maybe 50% water from other tank + 50% new water, even if getting half the water from the old tank isn't feasible atleast put a couple of buckets full in).

The reason for doing this is to introduce a population bacteria to your new tank - they would have established regardless but this helps things along. If you were going to have gravel in the new tank you could have taken a handful of gravel from the old tank to seed it. Other things that you can do is set up the new filter ahead of time in an existing tank so that it starts estabilishing its bacterial colony before hand. You could also squeeze some of the gunk from the filter wool/pad (not sure what sort of filtration you current tank has) of the old filter onto the new sponge filter.

I'd setup the heater straight away, IMO the waiting time often recommended when setting up a tank is usually to get the temperature stable and for any murk from setting up the tank to settle/be filtered out. The nitrogen cycle isn't going to properly start until you have fish in there producing waste for the bacteria to feed on (or you have some other form of nitrogen being added).

Once the temperature is stable at the desired temperature (I'd leave it a couple of days, measuring the temperature during those days) introduce your first few hardy fish. WCMM should be OK, as they will feed from the bottom (atleast my ones will) - why do I mention feeding from the bottom? If you cycle a tank with fish that only eat at the surface or in the mid-water area any uneaten food just settles onto the bottom of the tank and rots - not good; this means the fish you choose for cycling should be willing to eat off the bottom of the tank (I often recommend bristlenose or a common type of cory).

As far as adding rocks afterwards - that should be fine providing they're not a type of rock that will influence the pH and hardness and you don't squash any fish when you put them in . Adding gravel after the tank is setup is often problematic (causing a lot of clouding) unless it has been extremely well washed before hand).

[Phillz]

Awesome, thanks for the great info, will do as suggested

I have some small B/noses, so if I can catch a couple I will put them in too

[Phillz]

I have 3 huge apple snails, would they help at all?

I was thinking of putting them in anyway, so I can start having some nice plants in my bigger tank, without them being munched on LOL.

Also, the extablished tank has been treated for white spot the last week, is that going to be ok for putting a few buckets of water in the new tank?

I am running a Fluval 3plus filter in the extablished tank, so do I just sqeeze some of the gunk onto the sponge filter?

[Dawn]

Also, the extablished tank has been treated for white spot the last week, is that going to be ok for putting a few buckets of water in the new tank?

I don't know what the others think but I wouldn't if I was you. I've just started a new 215 litre tank a week ago and one of my other three tanks had white spot so I didn't use anything from that tank just in case.

If you don't have another tank to seed the bacteria from you could purchase a bottle of 'Cycle' or something similar, keep it in the fridge after you've opened it.

I've seeded AND used Cycle but I notice today the ammonia is starting to creep up although not too bad at present. I was always told not to do water changes until the cycling had finished so as not to remove the bacteria that was already there! Anyone else have other ideas?

[Rob]

@ Phillz:

You could add the three snails over time but I wouldn't add all three initially - they still count as bio-load so may over-extend your new tanks biological filtration (just like adding too many fish in one go). I'd probably just add one of them to start off with to clean up after the WCMM (particularly if you aren't able to catch the bristlenoses ).

I assume the fish you intend to cycle with are coming from the tank that had whitespot? If yes I'd probably still use some of the water from the old tank (perhaps only one or two buckets full - depends on what % of the new tank this represents) - but I wouldn't use any gravel or filter gunk from the old tank though. The reasoning is that the whitespot parasite is said to remain dorment in the gravel (and quite likely the sediment that builds up in filters) and will then infect fish during periods of stress - so better not to use that. You would also want to minimise any stress the fish are under - ie make sure that the temperature and pH of the new tank are as close as possible to the old tanks, not have any strong lighting on the tank initially (I don't mean total darkness though).

If the fish are coming from some other place then I wouldn't use anything from the old tank - your new tank will still cycle, it will just take a little longer or as Dawn says - you could buy some Cycle (or other similar bacteria in a bottle product) but somepeople dispute how useful these things are.

@ Dawn:

IMO it's better to do minimal water changes during cycling rather than none. Keep an eye on the ammonia level, if it's getting into the danger zone then do a small water change to drop it back to a safer level (so you've reduced the risk of fish deaths but still have some ammonia to encourage the expansion of the bacterial colony on the filter media). I personally don't subscribe to the school of thought that it's acceptable for the cycling fish to die.

[Wok]

I would not put any water in from your existing tank since you have been hit with whitespot. use your existing water supply. don't forget to put some water ager in it as well. the mountain minnows will be ok if you put them in straight away so you can get the cycling started. cycle will help as well.

Get the heater in there soon too as this will get the water up to temperature and help with the bacteria.

[Phillz]

OK here is what I have done.....

Filled 3/4 new water, 1/4 from other tank, the 4 WWCM are in the tank now that was treated.

Have put some river pebbles in as well as the ugly bright coloured gravel ( had some in storage.......so washed it....don't like it at all, but it is in there now :roll: )

Have added a peice of driftwood and feature rock from the original tank.

I have the filter running....don't like that either....to noisey LOL, thinking about getting a small internal filter.

Have the heater in and running.

How many days do you reakon I should wait until the WCMM and a snail go in?

What sort of internal filter system could I get for a 24x12x12, cheap :lol:

Thanks for the guidance everyone.

[Rob]

I personally would leave it 2 full days - longer if you're tweaking the heaterstat during that time (because it would take longer for the temperature to stabilise if you're changing it) - most new heaterstats with the set temperature scale on them aren't too bad, it's the older type where there is no temperature guide just a screw or knob to turn that can take a while to get set to the correct temperature.

I'd also suggest that you check on the pH before you transfer the fish or snail.

Sorry I can't comment about the internal filter - I don't have enough experience with the different brands.

[Phillz]

Todays Question is >>>>>>>do I need a filter in the tank at all?

I took the sponge filter out, as it was just too darn noisy.

I have put in a air stone thingie, thats nearly the full length of the tank, it runs along the back of the tank (looks really nice LOL)

The PH looks about the same as the main tank, going by a colour chart.

I have added 1 of my golden apple snails, it is about the size of a golf ball.

If all goes well I will add the WCMM tonight.

[Dawn]

Todays Question is >>>>>>>do I need a filter in the tank at all?

Not unless you're thinking of cleaning out the tank EVERY day! When you say the sponge filter is noisy - is it a corner sponge filter run by an air pump? If so it's probably the pump that is the noisy part!

I don't think you mentioned what size your tank is did you? You can get some really cheap small internal filters that are very good and not too expensive but it all depends on the size of tank what size you'd need.

[Phillz]

The small tank is 24x12x12.

The Bubbly annoys hubby, when he is trying to watch TV :roll:

I have the air pump going now, providing bubbles to a long air stone in the small tank, and a small air stone in the larges tank....hardly any noise at all and no complaining.

The filter that was in there, was a corner sponge filter.

Personally I would like an internal filter, something small, without too much current.

[breakaway]

What sort of internal filter system could I get for a 24x12x12, cheap :lol:

Take a look at this 8)

[Caryl]

What part of the sponge filter was making the noise? The pump or the bubbles? Filters are not necessary if you do plenty of regular water changes and keep the tank lightly stocked and well planted.

[Phillz]

It was the Bubbles that were complained about, but talking to Alan, he said to lessen the amount of air going through, and move it away from the glass, I am going to a bigger town tomorrow, so will have a look at other options there aswell.

Thanks for the advice everyone