Noob questions issue 2 - pH, oak leaves and wood......

[matildanz]

Our LPS/LFS won't test aquarium water so I've bought a kit off TM. Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates are all good but the pH is around 7.4/7.5 (it was the highest on the standard pH chart and the lowest on the high range pH chart). I tested the tap water and it has the same results. I don't want to go chucking all sorts of chemicals in the tank willy nilly so would rather try a more natural approach - oak leaves, wood and the like. THe local LPS doesn't sell wood for aquariums either.

Went down to our 'lake' this morning to see what we could find and came home with some fallen oak leaves and a small chunk of wood we dug out of the water. I don't know what sort of wood it is, but it doesn't look like willow and I couldn't see any willows where we were. It's been there for a fair old while as it weighs as much as a stone the same size. Any floating ability has long since gone!

Preparing wood for the tank

I found this posting from a while ago... http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6264 and it leads me to believe since it's spent so much time in the water already that I 'should' just be able to put it straight in the tank?? :-? I was under the impression that it would need to be boiled for ages. It's sitting in a bucket of water at the moment. At the very least, I'll have to give it a good scrubbing to get rid of all the snails! It's now been sitting in the bucket for almost 5 hours and the water is still crystal clear.

oak leaves

These are soaking in the bucket as well...... what do I do with them now? Obviously they go in the tank but do they need to be anchored down or is floating on the surface ok? and how many for a 60l tank??

Cursed algae

I've also got a nice crop of brown algae growing and was told at the pet shop that I didn't have enough light...... I thought it was because I had too much light!! (too much information rattling around in my brain, it's all so confusing!! ) The glass I can clean easily but it's all over the plants too and I'm a bit hesitant to go in and try rubbing it off my little tiger lotus and the ferny type plants. So......

Plecos, otos and loaches

I've been researching the algae eating fish available and from what I've read, plecos and otos are apparently the best. I like the look of the plecos but it appears they can grow very big. Bearing in mind that I only have a 60l Hailea tank I obviously can't get anything that will grow too big for it. Our LPS has some BN but they can't say what type! One (about 4-5cm) was starting to grow the little bristles so can I assume he's reaching maturity and won't grow a lot more?? They also had this adorable little fish - it was labled as a Myers Hillstream Loach - about 3cm long (4 if you count his tail) that was hoovering up all sorts of things off the glass but they also couldn't tell me how big he would grow and what sort of environment I'd need to keep 1 or 2 happy (and preferably alive!). THANKYOU GOOGLE!!

Cycling

How do you know if your tank is cycled? There are as many opinions on this subject as articles! I'm two weeks into my cycling and have so far lost 2 of my original 10 Neons (both around day 7 or 8 ). One was quite obviously dead when I retrieved him off the side of the filter and the other one is quite literally lost! No sign of the little blighter anywhere. The rest are all swimming around like idiots and the two biggest ones have found their favourite spots and woe betide any fish that come too close! They've also gotten quite used to their routine and will snatch the food from my fingers!

I've no intention of going out and buying a whole heap of fish all at once but I'm looking forward to adding a couple of beneficial fish as soon as it's safe to. I'm sure that little loach had my name written on him somewhere!!

Sorry for all the questions I'm sure there will be lots more!! Thanks for the info so far, I'm loving this hobby! :bounce:

[David R]

Preparing wood for the tank

If its small enough you could boil it for a bit, but I'd just give it a good scrub and a blast with a hose or water blaster. Maybe soak it in some fresh water for a week or two just to see if anything nasty comes out of it.

oak leaves

I think if you get the completely dried crispy ones and boil them they should sink. You can also add the water they're boiled in to help lower the pH and give the water a nice black-water colour.

Plecos, otos and loaches

Hillstream loaches are from temperate climates and probably won't do too well with warm water fish. Ottos would be your best bet, try Redwoods in Christchurch, and if they haven't got any or can't/won't ship them, try hollywood.

Cycling

If you've got fish in there and all your parameters are fine it sounds like the tank has done its cycle.

[BikBok]

Hi there

I'm sure some of the more experienced members will be along shortly to answer some of your questions.

I just wanted to comment on the hillstream loach as think they are really cool too ... but from what I understand they need a cooler temperature than most tropicals and also a decent current.

For algae control I started with the bristlenose as they don't grow too big but they didn't do much for the algae and were bothering my kuhli so I've now got some otos and these guys are really neat. Active and funny to watch and they munch through all the brown and some of the green, keeping the glass and plants clean. Oto's need an established tank so don't put them in too soon. That brown algae is fairly common in new tanks but will settle down in time.

You'll know when your tank is cycled when ammonia readings go to zero, followed by the nitrite readings dropping to zero and remaining at zero. Nitrates are removed with water changes but plants also help with that.

[DennisP]

Wood: I've always put mine straight in, there shouldn't really be a problem with it unless the water is polluted..

oak leaves not sure, never tried them

plecos ottos and loaches plecos aren't the best algae eaters, bristlenose are fine but I believe they become lazy as they grow bigger (15cm max I think), ottos are a good bet, but if you do some research You'll prbably find that they can sometimes die for no reason, so thats a risk but they aren't super expensive. Hillstream loach, if its the same thing as I have (labelled borneo sucker) it shouldn't grow more than 3-4cm, well mine hasn't anyway and it is fine living in 29* water.

cycling imo, overated. :lol: but thats just me.

[phoenix44]

Preparing wood for the tank

if you bought it, it will normally have been pre treated, and should sink automatically. it will however release an incredible amount of tannins into the water, so boiling the wood won't go amiss. it will still release some tannins, but won't turn the water really dark that way.

if you have found the piece of wood, make sure its completely dry and is actually drift wood (drift wood need not be dry). i used a rather attractive branch in one of my smaller tanks and the results were any thing but positive. boil any piece of wood you find if you feel the need to do so. its better to be safer than sorry, but don't go overboard with it hahaha.

oak leaves

I just chucked them in my puffer tank when they were yellow and dry and they sunk immediately.

Adler cones also release tannins into the water, but I have not noticed a change in the pH using them.

Cursed algae

Brown algae is usually cause in newer tanks, as the nitrate levels build up. is this the case in your situation?

There are some fish that eat it, like golden algae eaters, but don't get these fish for a community tank.

adding plants if you have a tank that is suitable, with suitable lighting should help out-compete the algae for nutrients.

Plecos, otos and loaches

get bristlenoses, and nothing else. you can get ottos once your tank has matured and has been running a while with no problems. they are usually quite sensitive to water conditions.

I am unsure what you mean by what tye of bn. usually when stores sell bn's they are ancistrus chirossus (spelling?) unless labelled other wise. these are the common bristle noses.

[Zev]

Hillstream loach, if its the same thing as I have (labelled borneo sucker) it shouldn't grow more than 3-4cm, well mine hasn't anyway and it is fine living in 29* water..

Hillstream loach is a generic term for the family Balitoridae of which there are over 30 known genera.

More info here: http://www.loaches.com/articles/hillstr ... -fast-lane

They do best at temperatures under 22 deg and require a strong current in the tank with high oxygen levels and algae to graze on.

[oneeyedfrog]

Hi, My pH is the same as yours and the fish are ok.

I think it is more important to have a stable pH than the recommended pH.

Ie neons prefer a lower ph but will be happier at a stable higher ph than one which goes up and down all the time. It’s much easier if you keep them in the same conditions as the water you have readily available.

I have quite a bit of driftwood in my tanks and even when the water is really tannin stained the pH hasn’t changed. Don’t know how well oak leaves work.

Introducing fish slowly to your water by dripping water from your tank thru an airhose for 1hr plus into their bag will help to avoid ph shock for new fish if the pH at the pet shop is different from yours.

I usually boil wood for ½ hr if it fits in a pot – to kill nasties like snails. Otherwise I water blast it .

+1 for a bristlenose- even my big ones eat that algae.

[Caryl]

There is nothing wrong with your pH so don't fiddle with it.

I have only ever given driftwood a scrub and a rinse then added it to the tank.

Brown algae is common in a new set-up. It will disappear as the tank matures and the plants grow.

Neons are not very hardy these days so aren't a good choice to use when cycling. A tank ought to cycle in about 1 month.

[DennisP]

@p44, was that branch you used actually dead? It didn't really look it...

[phoenix44]

it was well and truly dead and dry.

[matildanz]

Thanks everyone on the info about the loaches - yes they were the flattened 'ray' shape as opposed to the 'fish' shape. I had read they required a strong water flow and high oxygen. Funnily enough the tank they were in was sitting at 28 degrees going by the stick on thermometer

Brown algae is usually cause in newer tanks, as the nitrate levels build up. is this the case in your situation?

I don't think so, when I tested the nitrate levels on Thursday they were at 0ppm as was nitrites and ammonia levels. Doesn't mean they aren't on the rise though! I'll keep an eye on it.

I am unsure what you mean by what tye of bn. usually when stores sell bn's they are ancistrus chirossus (spelling?) unless labelled other wise. these are the common bristle noses.

You're right...... that's what happens when you skip over a paragraph when you're reading :roll: !! Common old garden variety bristle noses they are then