Please bear with me.......... newbie questions!

[matildanz]

Right, I'm currently cycling my tank with 10 neons (as per suggestion from petshop - now I'm thinking that may be too many!), Day 4 and all are still alive. I asked about testing the water and was told that unless they all go belly up within a week then it really wasn't necessary - sounded good at the time but the more I dig around in this forum I'm thinking a test is probably in order! From recollection, there was a multitude of different test kits so.......

Q1 - what sort of kit do I really need (I'm sure shops try to sell all sorts of things that aren't altogether necessary!)

Q2 - Should I be doing a partial water change and if so what percentage? and how often?

Q3 - How do you clean a planted tank? I'm assuming those tube things for syphoning crud from the stones would wreak havoc on any plant! :-? Will regular partial water changes and a couple of bottom dwellers cope?

She - as in the petshop owner where I bought my tank in CHCH - suggested having the lights on for 8 hours for a start, but is this enough to encourage the plants to grow properly? I'd like to have quite a good coverage of plants even if it means less fish.

Called past our local petshop on my way home from work but they close at 5pm so I won't be able to get there until Saturday.

Blimey.... I don't remember all this palaver last time but I want to get this right. No doubt I was a bit gungho last time..... with fingers crossed, whistle in the dark and hope for the best :roll: this time however, I'm a whole lot older and hopefully a little bit wiser!!

TIA

[DennisP]

Q1: forget it. Unless you have enough money and are keeping really sensitive fish, don't bother. You can always take water the the lfs and they will test it (if you really need to). I have never tested my water (ph only) and never had any problems.

Q2: water changes wouldn't hurt, but only do small ones. As most of the bacteria will be growing in the filter, changing small amounts of water and cleaning up the rubbish wont harm (i think)

Q3: Siphoning, You don't need to be too [insert correct word here(perfectionist?)] about it, the plants should use it up if you have enough. You can suck up most of the stuff sitting on top of the gravel by holding the hose a few cms above the substrate.

As for too many neons, Don't worry. I've barely given my tank time to cycle before I put in discus and everyone was fine. I think its a bit over-exaggerated, but then again, "what works for you, doesn't always work for others".

[Manda]

Once a girl at the local fish shop insisted I needed a KH tester (KH can effect PH apparently)... well that was a waste of $62... so be careful with what shops recommend.

Also sometimes its cheaper to let a sick fish die and buy a new one... I threw about $50 at a fish I paid $5 for once and it still died. I tell you these people see me coming.

Good luck with your tank.

[SamH]

pH, Ammonia and Nitrate are the main ones really, I don't use any of my other tests but then again, I hardly use the main ones either.

Whilst cycling, only change the water when the concentration of Ammonia, Nitrite and/or Nitrate gets too high for the fish to handle. If using the fishless cycling method, no water changes are needed until the end.

I stopped using a gravel vac as soon as I got serious about plants. If you feel the need then only siphon the muck out of the gravel away from the base of plants or else you are taking the free nutrients (from fish waste) away from them and disturbing their roots. As Dennis said, you don't need to be too meticulous about gravel vaccuming.

HTH

[Moya]

Q1 - I certainly like to have test kits on hand. If your a close drive to an LFS then it might not be so important for you to keep your own, but I find mine very useful. I am however one of those people that likes to just check up on things for the hell of it. Some, like previously mentioned, are more vital than others for cycling however.

Q2 - If you have test kits (namely ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) then you'll be able to track how your cycling is progressing, and as such will only need to make water changes were you see it to be necessary. If not, then I would recommend you do partial water changes each week for the cycling period (about 2 - 3 months). The amount you change will depend on your stocking level. How many liters is the tank your setting up?

Q3 - The great thing about a planted tank is that if you get the balance of nutrients right it should only need very little changing, as the end nitrate product of your bacterial filtration will service your plants. A bit of a syphon wont go amiss here and there, but remember to only hold it just on to the surface of the gravel, so as to not disturb the nutrients in the gravel bed.

[David R]

At the very least you should have a pH test kit, its good to know what your tank is at when introducing new fish. I lost a lot of fish when I started out because we were on tank water and the water in my tank was about pH 5.0, my neon tetras were thriving but everything I added to the tank died from the shock.

Once its cycled and running fine you probably don't need ammonia, nitrate or nitrite, I kept all sorts of fish for about 8 years before I started worrying about them.

[Caryl]

I would disagree with Moya on her point 3. I dig the siphon down as far into the gravel as it will go to make sure I suck up all the muck. I don't do this around the plant roots though. There, I hold the siphon just above the gravel to pick up the surface debris.

Test kits are handy when things go wrong as the first thing you will be asked is what are your pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels.

10 neons may be too many depending on the size of the tank. Not sure they are actually the best to cycle with as they are not very hardy these days but fingers crossed they will keep well. You may start having problems from days 7 - 10 as ammonia etc levels start to rise. A test kit will help you decide when to do a water change to keep the toxins at acceptable, non harmful levels until the filter bacteria grow enough.

[phoenix44]

It depends on your idea of what a truly planted tank is. I call my tank planted but have met many many people who insist they have planted tanks because they have a single plant in their tank that barely survives a week before it needs changing.

The first gravel vac i did in my tank in about 3 months was done last week, and the gunk mainly came out from the rear wall of the tank. there was nothing at the front.

The amount of poop in the tank also depends on what fish you are feeding, how often and what you feed them.

Due to the abundance of bottom dwellers in my tank I undoubtedly have a lot of poop in there. plants help with that and i've never had and never will have a problem as long as i deal with the excess waste in a sensible manner - i.e. never let it build up for 6 months at a time.

each tank is different and you have to do best with what you have and do the best for yourself.

[SamH]

There a different types and degrees of planted tanks. Fake plants for instance, do not count. A lightly planted tank will have a true aquatic plants that are surviving and growing. A planted tank will have much of the tank planted with plants that are growing, surviving and thriving. And a heavily planted tank (such as phoenix44's) will have almost all, if not all of the tank taken up with plants that are surviving and thriving.

Then there's the whole high and low tech concept. Loads of light, CO2 and heavy fertilization is a high tech. Low tech aquariums typically have just sufficient lighting, no or minimal CO2 and rely on the fish for fertilization.

HTH