Koura query

[dat1]

Hi all, awsum reading and I can now confirm from the pictures from this forum that I just landed me 2 boys and a big gurl 3 weeks ago and are living in a 88L tank. I'll be moving the big gurl to another 88L tank cos shes been bullying the boys and owns the tank.

So since she's about 13cm and the boys are 10cm is there a chance she might bed one or is she likely to eat one? I had 2 boys of 15cm but I ate them and others with my nephews thinkin they might man handle the gurl and turn her off.

I've got a hangon filter and after reading loads about filtration when do you clean the bio filter? I'm finding I've got to clean it once every 2 weeks and i make sure I clean the sponge filter the following week just to keep the good algae going or is this all just a myth? Guess doesn't help havn 8 small goldfish but their numbers are declining.

And blue lights for watchin em at night time is this rubbish or wot? I haven't tried cos I don't have the time to make it nor the $$ to bother but heaps of time to feed them.

Cheers

[dat1]

Well I got the new tank but gotta get some sand & stuff together and let this run for a couple of weeks b4 adding the big gurl. Geeperz I dunno how some of you get really good clear water in those photo shots. I'm not posting mine yet cos they just don't cut it.

Q. How are you guys weighing down the driftwood so that it looks cool vertically in your tank?

I had a brain fart a couple of weeks back and threw in some green feijoa branches which in a week or so the water went brown and smelt like peat. I've done a partial water change by collecting rain water or awsum spring water from the King Country and replaced the sponge filter but everytime it goes dark brown and thick with muck. The water has cleared alot b4 putting the Koura in but now it still has that peat smell and the sponge filter is still building up with the thick brown stuff.

The 8 goldfish and 3 koura are still alive eating peas, corn, cat biscuits and bits of last nights pork roast. The biggest goldfish has a few gold scales less down one side and he's been pushing his luck at times by eating bits of food inches away from the koura. One little goldie tried the same trick and ended up as dinner instead.

Back to the new tank I might cut some perspex to partition the tank in half temporarily after big gurl has some babez. I was thinking perpex might be easier for drilling holes so the water still gets to circulate and I wouldn't have to run 2 filter pumps for the one tank. These holes will be enuff for the babez to escape big gurl in case she gets abit 2 hungry.

Ciao

[Zev]

Hi dat1, welcome to the forums.

You can use lead fishing weights to get your driftwood to sink, tie them on carefully, I seem to remember somewhere that something got tangled in nylon that was used, and koura are nosey things.

When you say replace the sponge filter, are you just rinsing it out and putting it back, or chucking it out and putting a new sponge in there? The latter is not necessary, as the sponge does not deteriorate and can be used for years, and by throwing it away you are loosing beneficial bacteria from the filter.

If the filter contains ceramic media, just rinse this out when it gets clogged with gunk, best done in a bucket of water that you have removed from the tank so as not to kill off the bacteria, I only do mine when the flow reduces and it is in a net bag, so is very easy to haul out and give it a swish around in the bucket and pop it back in after I have done the same with the sponge, which usually gets a few squeezes in the bucket to clear the gunk as well.

HTH

[Carlos & Siran]

We bought a huge lead sinker off lea distributors to weigh down the drift wood in our comp tank, when I explained to the fulla behind the counter what we where using it for he raised his eye brows and said don't do that, lead sinkers have some other stuff mixed into them these days which would poison the water, I smiled politely and said I'd take the risk. But every bottom dwelling fish we've put in the tank dies within a few days. The other day we put a skinny clown loach in there, he was fine a part from being thin, and with in a few hours he was lying on his side on the bottom of the tank, we whipped him out and put him in another tank and now he's fine...so perhaps that fulla at lea distributors was right and you should use the older unshiny lead sinkers.

[dat1]

Ah yes the old lead they used for making fish sinkers would be the better choice. Thanx for the tip.

I've got a hangon filter and the fibre type filter for this needs replacing cos its thick with muck and cleaning it is a waste of time. But the sponge filter in my other pump that I got for 20 bux is definitley the long lasting type as you suggested so I'm contemplating using this but trying to figure out how to use it for both tanks - I'm just running into the issue of flooding one and emptying the other.

Well its finally raining in the mighty Waikato so I'm filling me 2nd tank with the rainwater. I've found the temp is getting up to 22degC even though the tanks are in the coolest part of the house so I'm looking at a DIY water cooler using our broken beer fridge for parts. At the mo I'm chipping blocks of ice from inside the chest freeza slowly add this to the tank until the temp gets down to 20 or 21deg C.

One of the boys escaped last night probably from climbing up the airhose. He looked a little dry in the morning but quickly recovered once he was found and put back in the tank. Hes very active so he could be hungry or just wants out of the tank cos he's been advancing on the big gurl and I reckon his days are numbered if i don't get the 2nd tank up and running v.soon.

The rains stopped so i can go empty my buckets.

[dat1]

How much Oxygen do these dudes need to survive? I put one of my males in a tank of his own and just put in an airstone with drastic results.

Why I ask is after filling the tank with rain water and mixing it with about 30litres of water from the main tank which hold 3 koura and now 6 goldies, one of my koura was found lying on his side by the mrs. Anyway i thought he was checking out his new home but he sat for some time by the air stone so when the mrs mentioned It i quickly got my wand out and poked him to see if there was signs of life. None. Oh my G*D!!! so i grabbed him and placed him back in the main tank. He only lasted 30mins in his new abode. I remembered that they too have gills so i gave a few sweeps thru the tank to get the water rushing by him until the other occupants started freaking out so I reverted by waving water passed him using my fingers. Some life came rushing back when he quickly bolted to the other side of the tank but didn't seek any cover and found himself backed into a corner and then......nuthin, not even a flick of his feelers or wave of his many legs...... and then side on he went......I just buried the family feline two weeks ago from old age, not this too?

So again I grabbed him and put him over the airstone + got the other airstone and put that beside him too. I could see very small movements at his mouth and then his smaller feelers started twitching and some movement started in his many legs but what a wait. Small bubbles started coming out at the junction of his feelers and then above this point but i dunno if he was doing this or the bubbles from the airstone. Some movement was occurring and it was getting real late so i put him in a container with holes in the lid and kept him in the main tank.

The following morning the dude was back to normal- relief!!! and he had eaten some of the cat biscuits i left inside....but....

The dude falls to his side and appears dead but when i poke him he quickly gets his guard up, i guess everyone needs a sleep but this dude is now a deep sleeper and I'm afraid the big gurl might get him or the other male if he isn't careful.

I checked the tank for PH,NO2,NO3,KH,GH and they're both the same. I caught 3 goldies and put them in the other tank and they're sweet, so I can only guess that the tank didn't have enuff O2 in it. The main tank had air bubbling for a whole month before any goldies were added.

Now, the airstone is back in the other tank to get the O2 up but I'm not sure if my dude is ready to be put thru another experience and I doubt i'll find him in one piece if he remains where he is. The temps are the same, same type of water drawn from the same place, with the same size tank using the same air pump but no filter.

3 days after - the dude is still sleeping odd but appears ok when he's prodded and all the goldies are ok.

So when is a good time to transfer him?? I'll take another shot in a week if the dude is up to it.

While I'm waiting I tried adding sinkers to my piece of driftwood but it appears its harder to pin down a long piece of wood laying horizontally then if it was standing vertically...bugga my piece looks better laying down.

Any1 tried growing watercress on the surface?

[Heir]

Wow... I bet you're a hoot in real life huh...

When I was like 10 I had about 5 in a bucket full of rocks on the deck at my parents house...

They survived months... the water was green as when I cleared it out and released them back in a different river :roll:

But they seemed happy enough.

Having said that I do NOT - under any circumstances - recommend this as a home for koura!

[dat1]

Yeah mate i'm up late in the mornings like a morepork and at times i wish i had done this when i was a wee scrout. I'm surprised your green water was alright for your koura but they must've grown into it and got used to the conditions. These armoured soldiers can be a handful if they're in full swing trying to escape or fighting for space.

I did a 50% water change on both tanks and the dude, big gurl and sook are looking much better sitting upright.

Since the dude started sleeping sideways, i noticed big gurl and sook started so somethin was going wrong. Reading earlier thru this forum someone mentioned there fish were lethargic and then they died....well i wasn't prepared to find out later, so the water was quickly replaced....not raining this time so had to go with tap water - biggest gamble eva!!! And it worked...good for four hours and all 3 koura are well and acting normally - feelers twitching, front parts to the mouth fluttering and legs slowly going back and fro.

So I put the dude in the other tank and he went ballistic! trying to escape by climbing the glass, air hose, or trying to use his tail to flip himself out......something was terribly wrong so out he came and back in the main tank. And again he was going bananas round the tank going backwards, trying to climb the walls again and then i noticed he started to stumble instead of crawling and his actions started to slow down and then boom.....nuthin. Something is really bad in the other tank the 3 goldies are doin fine but give 30mins my koura start going downhill. I give them some time to settle in before I get a brain fart and i reckon 4 hrs was enough.

I had wiped down tank scrubbed out the corners, same stones from the same place, and same tap water as in the main tank.....My mrs asked me if the tank had anything else in prior and the last owner mentioned a turtle.......i geesus salmonella??? so maybe gotta really huck it out. Then i recall using the previous owners pump on it and it went cloudy from the ceramic noodles - Dam it!!! another possibility.

Ok then empty the other tank dry, scrub it clean, rinse a couple of times and refill, cleaning the stones andanything else that doesn't move. Hope this works. The dude has finally come back to some normal movement after a couple of hrs, but his tail isn't relaxed as its wrapped up tight under his belly - so he's not a hundy % but hoping he'll come round soon.

L8A

[dat1]

Freekin heck all 3 were a little wobbly for a day or so but they have adjusted to the tap water in the main tank is my guess. My son tells me the dude's tail is now relaxed and aint tucked under his belly and looks good. They are actively terrorising the last remaining goldfish...6... at night, and i thought the dude was gonna lose a nippa when big gurl had a go at him for invading her space. His front nippa looked odd so i quickly intervened to break up there wrestling match b4 he lost a limb. They've all settled down now which is cool.

Son......can you empty the other tank.........plz.

[Stella]

wow, some reading here!

OK, sounds like your crays are being subjected to a LOT of changes continually, and their behaviour doesn't actually surprise me.

When really stressed they can lie on their sides all stiff and non-responsive. I have seen it a couple of times. They come right if given a chance to relax, as you saw.

Wafting the water to reoxygenate the cray was a stroke of pure genius - well done!

Also crays are expert escape artists, as you found with the boy getting out. Flicking with the tail is an attempt to escape. Most animals are most likely to try to escape when put into a new situation. Nothing to really worry about.

Now things I would worry about:

Yes, having the small boys separate from the big girl is a good idea. Yes it is possible for them to mate and raise weeny crays incaptivity, but her eating her boyfriends is much more likely.

Don't worry too much about the tap water, should be fine. They are sensitive to chemicals, so running the tap hard or letting it settle over night will remove most of the chlorine. DO NOT use chlorine removing chemicals or water conditioners etc as these can be toxic to crays.

I think you need to do a whole lot of searching and reading about cycling a tank, and also how filters really work. Ideally the sponge should not need rinsing out regularly, that just destroys the good bacterial colonies that do the real filtration. It shouldn't be clogging up with gunge.

Your crays will get used to coming out during the day as they learn there are no predators and day is when food happens.

Peas, corn and cat biscuits sound fine for the crays, but lay off the roast. They probably will go nuts for it, but might be a bit fatty for them. They do need a lot of protein as well as their veggies, just not sure how they would go with the fat and cooked meat. Also it will be terrible for the water quality if any sits around.

You said you put some green fejoa branches in. Avoid ALL green wood, can leach sap etc and generally make a mess of your water quality. Go for something long dead that you find by a stream or on the beach.

Hope that helps

[dat1]

Cheers Stella, most of it has been by trial and error and quickly responding to any abnormal behaviour. Unfortunately time was on my hands and which you have rightly pointed out that has led to my koura's stressing out. I'm waiting on my other tank to come right after adding in 5 goldies to get the bacteria going b4 I leave big gurl in her own tank. She doesn't seemed too fussed by the goldies and they clean her big nippas so i dunno if she is a deep sleeper or just not hungry. I'll look at moving the guys once the Ph is the same and the NO's are low.

Yes my feijoa branches we'ren't dead enuff and this caused the water to go brown so i removed all of them but a few of the leaves so that they can eat them if they wish. My water appears to stay clearer as a result.

Thnx Stella for the advice on cycling of a tank - I'm just reading thru this site b4 going google. Can U recommend a good site?

[Stella]

They probably will munch on those leaves - they are naturally detritivores.

I am surprised the girl is not attacking the goldfish! I do find each cray has quite a distinct personality, so maybe she is not a murderous one

These are the sites I recommend, but consider them a starting point, if they don't completely make sense keep reading (and asking):

faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html

www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/cycling.htm

fishkeepers.co.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=355

[dat1]

So true - maybe big gurl aint the smash and grab. I also saw her back up and use her tail to push off one of the boys rather than spinning around and using her nippas. She was the 2nd occupant to man the tank and bumped out the first fella using her size so that she got the best pozie. He was really peeved but he now has more chance of nabbing some goldies for dinna in his new cave.

[dat1]

Hi, nuthin new my koura have settled down and are sitting normally wen they get some shut eye, the goldie population hasn't changed at all and they seem to love swatted flies. The water temp is 20degC, nice and clean and I'm now waitin on a filter to arrive to get the 2nd tank rollin.

I had watercress in both tanks and the friggin goldies have been tearing them apart.

Q1. Can anyone suggest a freshwater plant that doesn't need much light?

Q2. Once the goldies have all been gobbled up what native FW fish will live with my koura?

:bounce:

[SamH]

Q1. Can anyone suggest a freshwater plant that doesn't need much light?

Java Fern, Anubias, Java Moss. I've found my H. polysperma to be doing well under only 2x T8's so you could try that?

HTH

[Stella]

What fish can live with your koura depends a lot on what size the koura is, and slightly less importantly what size the fish are.

I find koura around or larger than 7cm can become quite a threat. Really any fish in a tank with them is at risk of minor injuries at least.

Ground-dwelling fish like bullies are much more at risk, especially the males when nesting. Inanga are a good one as they tend to stay in the water column.

I tend to make sure that the bullies are larger than the cray. However I won't take a bully larger than maybe 6cm as they struggle to adjust to captivity.

Are you sure that the goldfish are destroying the plants and not the cray? They are expert at pulling everything apart.

[dat1]

yeh the goldies are rippin them apart.

SAD NEWS ++ the dude RIP ++ not sure what happened found him sitting on top of the bubbles with goldies flappin there arssshes in his face, no sign of movement so i poked him and he ended up on his back with out any movement. Bugga. Wasn't quick enuff to get him into the other tank i think. He hasn't liked his hiding places on offer and resorted to living beside big gurl. The other dude and big gurl are ok. Betcha them goldies are lovin it.

[dat1]

Gotta fright this arvo - found one koura on its side another flappin around in the tank and....another sitting comfy? I had to take another look at the one on its side and realised big gurl had shed her shell.....relief. I noticed over the last couple of days that she was busy pushing stones away from her favourite posie probably in preparation for todays activity. The water was a little murky and the other chap was trying to have a good look around. Both have settled down next to each other now but i might just put dis guy in the other tank just to be safe. He's yet to shed his and i reckon she might have a go at him when he is.....soft.

[Stella]

oooh neat!

Leave her shell in there and she will eat most of it over the next week.

Shedding can be a risky time - they can get stuck and die, or as you suspect, get attacked while soft. Moving him is possibly a good idea but otherwise, leave her to her own thing.

[dat1]

Been awhile,

all is well with Big gurl and the other dude livin in separate tanx. Big gurl is one goldie short so she must be happy - came running out one time for a piece of fresh raw fish liver. As for the other dude he's looking a little lethargic - might need a water change soon and he seems to like the green peas over the liver.

Trying to get the bioalgae to get growin but the low temps now in the garage might be slowin things down from growing too.