JoeBlog Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 I am a bit worried and confused about the care of my sand bed. The design of my tank was inspired by www.Reef-Eden.com, which was also featured in Marine World magazine Dec/Jan 2004, Issue No. 15, pg. 18. So, I have an island reef rack surrounded by ~2†of sand bed. Due to my low position on the learning curve during the design (which hasn’t increased significantly since), I didn’t take into account leaving room throughout to clean/vacuum the entire bed, i.e. in the back and some areas on the sides the rock is just too close to the glass to get the vacuum in there. Others have recently looked at my tank and have been quite concerned with the gas formation in the sand, which is visible from the front glass. The recommendation has been to vacuum more often and stir the sand in between the times I vacuum as well as in those areas that the vacuum cannot reach since these gas bubbles will eventually become toxic and possibly kill everything in my tank if left untouched. Is this true? How often should I be vacuuming the sand? I currently do it in the accessible areas roughly fortnightly. Before all of this worry, I just used a power head to stir up the detritus in those areas that I couldn’t reach with the vacuum and let the filtration system take care of it. Is this not good enough? Is this sand bed too deep? Layton made a comment in another thread relating to DSB’s, “Most important thing is DON'T ever touch or disturb the bed. By exposing the inner layers of the bed, you expose all sorts of intermediate chemical, which are often very toxic, so they can diffuse into the water quickly, and kill your tank inhabitants.†Again, I wouldn’t call my sand bed deep since it is 2â€, but I certainly have some gas bubbles throughout. If I stir the sand as has been recommended, in some areas it’s almost as if there was an air stone under the sand. Thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 are you wanting a deep sandbed or is the 2" just becuase thats howmuch you put in when you started the tank for cosmetics and as a base for bio diversity? i would siphon out some of the sand to be about 1" or add more to create a true dsb. a fortnightly vacuum sounds like a very good habit, (at least initially) what kind of sand do you have/?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Hmmm, my understanding of what Layton said in the forum i posted is that the display tank sand bed is to be about 1" thick with course sand to prevent debrae/gas build up and have a seperate tank with a 3-4" thick bed of fine gran sand so it can be isolated if anything was to go wrong. I assume this is to isolate the harmful gasses that might occur, and get disturbed. Is this rite Layton? If so you could probably put your excess sand in your refrigium that you've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 or if you are going to remove the excess sand and don't want it i'll bye it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Thats where I am heading DSB in refuge and prob no sand in display.... maybe 1 inch but i am sure i will regret it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted November 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 are you wanting a deep sandbed or is the 2" just becuase thats howmuch you put in when you started the tank for cosmetics and as a base for bio diversity? I choose the 2†sand bed initially simply for esthetics and a place for little critters to grow/live/hide. The 2" bed was also the depth of the www.Reef-Eden.com tank that I modeled my on. I have a "deep" sand bed in my refuge, i.e. 4", which is (hopefully) for functional purposes. i would siphon out some of the sand to be about 1" or add more to create a true dsb. If the 2" is in fact a problem, then I will probably have to remove an 1" or so as you suggest. I would prefer not to have to do this since I have a 2" acrylic barrier for the reef rack island. You would then be able to see under the rocks and I’m sure it would look pretty bad. If I add more sand, then it will just fall under the reef and be continually blown out from the spray bar, not exactly ideal either. This is basically my starter tank and the visible reef rack wouldn’t be the first ghetto look that I will chalk up to a learning experience. We’re going to buy/build a house in the next year or so where I will have the larger tank set up (probably very similar to Chimera's, so thanks for all the information/advice) with hopefully all of these kinks worked out by then! In the mean time, it is more about function and if it has to be ugly, then I will just live with it for a while. what kind of sand do you have/?? I'm not sure speicifically what kind of sand it is since it just came in a bag marked sand when I bought my system. It is quite small granule though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Sandbeds are where its 'at'. I have read more about sandbeds than any one man could, and my opnion on them has changed several times over the past few years. I am currently at the 'pro sandbed'. This is reinfoced by Eric Bournemans article currently published on reefkeeping online this month. Sand beds are in, sand-less is out. HOWEVER. Sandbeds without reasonable ciculation are bad. Go the sandbed. Also all the talk about 'noxious' gas release appears to be based on paranoia and little fact. There was a few interesting articles on advanced aquirist online about the effects of noxious gas in sandbeds (because when disterbed they can smell like rotton eggs). The testing done shows that its not doing any harm at all and shouldn't be something to be concerned with. I am using a 2" sandbed in my display, and a DSB in my sump. Keep in mind the sump is a 5 foot fishtank. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted November 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 I've heard quite a bit of talk of the Bourneman article on RC. I will definitely have to get my hands on a copy. I really like the look of sand and would certainly like to keep it. Given that you (Pies) have done heaps of research yourself and the fact that you are going to have essentially the same setup as mine (in terms of sand bed), it is quite a relief. As far as SB maintenance, should I just continue the current regime: 1. vacuum fortnightly (not the entire accessable bed, approximately 1/2) 2. in the inassessable areas, just use the power head to raise the detritus back into the water column. Should I worry about raking the sand in those areas that is not assessable for vacuum in addition to the power head treatment? I have also read somewhere that this is actually good for the corals in terms of a bit of a snack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Just stir it up a bit. Most of the gas coming from DSB's is just nitrogen from the reduction of nitrate. But there are other processes going on which produce other gases, on of which is hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell) this forms an acidic solution when mixed with water, this can affect your ph and lower you alkalinity, if enough is released at once. There are also other not so pleasant intermediate chemicals formed, which, if exposed to the water column, can cause problems, if they reach high concentrations. Unlikely, but all the same it's still possible. Eric past couple of articles are defiantly worth a read. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Sand maintenance? Whats that? I just leave mine, little crabs, snails and worms are working through it, and its covered in microbes (bugs) etc. I personally am just going to leave it. This is what I did with my other tank, no problems for 18 months, great coral growth and colours and cristal clear water always. You shouldn't have dead spots in the tank, these can cause nitrates and build up of 'poo'. Just get some circulation in there all the time, get it into the water colum and the skimmer should grab it. Most people agree that the sandbed provides food for corals. Layton - The articles about Hydrogen Sulfide said that the amount required to have a negitive effect on the water chemistry was so high it was incocievable that a home aquirum sand bed could generate enough to be a problem. So I am going with that If you want to read Eric Bournemans article its free on www.reefcentral.com link to reefkeeping online magizine (free from the good folks at RC). Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Sand bed maintenance -I keep the sand in my display clean, because I don't like it looking dirty, and it's too coarse and shallow to act as a DSB. The DSB I don't touch. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 i noticed that my brothers tank gathered allot less gunk than mine other tank, the only difference was the type of sand mine was crushed coral sand, his was an argonite (spelling) type very white course granuled sand (it almost looked like a crushed white marble) his not only gathered less gunk but it also looked alot nicer (color) (imo) why not syphon some out to your dsb in the sump and increase that a bit more?? (shouldnt have any adverse effects, but get some input on that from the experts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Steve - Personally I don't think you have anything to worry about. Keep doing what you have been doing. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 I do nothing with mine, and it looks crisp and clean. I attribute this to have high flow. I do get some corraline growing on the larger particles of shell etc in the bed. My sand is 'crushed coral sand' from brooklands. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holiday Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Pies wrote I have read more about sandbeds than any one man could. I have a stack of articles in my bedroom thats about two foot high all on DSB's and plenums. If you go to www.reefs.org and click on #reefs, type in sandbeds it should come up with about 260 articles all written by advanced aquariests. Happy reading!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 My sand is 'crushed coral sand' from brooklands. Pie yours should be the same steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Another option if you have a sump is to invest in another small pump in the sump and run a hose up to your display, (just like the main pump), and run a hockey stick over the top and fire it down into one of the corners. This creates awesome current and clears corners and their adjacent sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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