Discus - White Lump

[iisfaq]

I have been having problems with my Discus tank. I found they had funny poo so I moved them to a hospital tank and treated them with (Trichozole 400mg tablets * 6) for 2 weeks or so. This seemed to help this problem..

I then setup a new tank, and using the original filter moved the fish to the new tank.

Then I noticed within 2 days a small white spot on one of the Discus.

I did not know what it was so I treated with Machalite green. This seemed to cure it with a couple of doses.

Now another discus has a white lump / cotton style thing. This time it is a lot larger, and in the last 24 hours it has probably doubled in size even though I did a 30% water changed and a new full treatment of Machalite green - 1ml per 20 litres.

Any ideas what it could be and what to treat it with?

The tank is 350 Liters...

Cheers

Chris

[Bilbo]

First, nice looking fish. Its a little 'pinched around the forehead so metro is a good choice especially if he is showing other signs of internal problems like white stringy poo's.

Its a bit hard to identify what that is because its a bit bright so I guess it has caught the reflection from your flash. If its a pit of any sort the continue with the metro 400mg per 50 ltrs per day with 90 - 100% water changes every day and keep temp up at 29 - 30.

Often a fish will be more likely to become ill if the water isnt right. What are the details on the water?

Might pay to follow up the Trichozole/Metro with some general worming stuff like levamisole just to be on the safe side and also do an epsom salt bath for 4 - 6 hours at 1 tablespoon per 50 ltrs before your next treatment perhaps.

If it is still eating then mix meds with food for quicker and better treatment. I use 1/4 of a 400mg mixed with the first feed of the day for 4 days.

[iisfaq]

Thanks Biblo

Do you think it is Hex? The reason I ask is that when I got home from work the white has gone and there is now a whole in his head (or more a pit as you say)

I treated 5 discus in a hospital tank for over 2 weeks in 50 litres of water.

During this time I treated them with 6 tablets a day of 400mg trichozole and generally 40-60% water change per day over two weeks.

I would hate to think that hex has survived that - generally it is pretty expensive to buy the pills etc..

I currently have a large catfish in my hospital tank he had funny poo as well. He used to live with the Discus and now I am not sure exactly the process to take.

I am off to the US in 3 weeks for 10 days and I would like some sort of stable tank for the "fish feeder"

Maybe they are all best in the hospital tank. But I would have though that 6 x 400 per day was a lot?

chris

[SupaGreen]

mine have this, its like a parasite. I just turned the light so i could take a photo and they have spawned again :bounce:

Hmm mine aren't showing the parasite at the moment. Does it kind of look like white piece of soft flesh, does it wave around with water, or does it look hard?

[iisfaq]

I did not notice it waving in the water - it was slightly more firm.

The photo I took was too bright - and that was without the flash

I had some frozen flake with Trichozole I made up and they are all eating that

Chris

[Bilbo]

Can I clarify please

6 x 400mg tablets per day in 50ltrs? Thats way overkill. My preference is 1 per day and 100% water change a day (temp 29 and slightly acid pH of 6.5ish).

I pay about $1.00 per pill so you are saying you have spent at least $80 on meds so far?

You have 5 sick discus? and a large catfish? All in a 50 ltr tank? Way to small.

But you are right that not much could have survived that, suprised the discus did.

Something is very wrong if I got the above right. Water quality if most likely the first thing to check.

As a way out trick try grinding up some pumpkin seads into the meat meal. Peal the hard outer layer off 3 or 4 and cut the white sead up into tiny bits and add it into the food and let it soak for 15 minutes. If nothing else it will give them a good clean out but it will remove tape worms if any are in them. I know thats unlikely but it cant hurt.

Next epson salts treatment and then fresh garlic either by itself of mixed fresh with a meat meal.

Keep us up to date.

[iisfaq]

Can I clarify please

6 x 400mg tablets per day in 50ltrs? Thats way overkill. My preference is 1 per day and 100% water change a day (temp 29 and slightly acid pH of 6.5ish).

I pay about $1.00 per pill so you are saying you have spent at least $80 on meds so far?

Basically true - how do you do 100% water change - there has to be room for the fish?

You have 5 sick discus? and a large catfish? All in a 50 ltr tank? Way to small.

But you are right that not much could have survived that, suprised the discus did.

Well the discus has funny poo, nothing else looked sick. The catfish was only put into the hospital tank after the discus left the hospital tank.

Last time I checked the water in the main tank prior to the hospital it was 100% chemically correct.

As a way out trick try grinding up some pumpkin seads into the meat meal. Peal the hard outer layer off 3 or 4 and cut the white sead up into tiny bits and add it into the food and let it soak for 15 minutes. If nothing else it will give them a good clean out but it will remove tape worms if any are in them. I know thats unlikely but it cant hurt.

Never heard of this treatment but I will do it. Should they be fresh pumpkin seeds?

Next epson salts treatment and then fresh garlic either by itself of mixed fresh with a meat meal.

Should I do this in the hospital tank?

I will do the pumpkin and garlic. And i will do a full water test in the new aquarium. The original old aquarium is now Empty.

So just to make it clearer:

5 Discus + 1 Catfish in a tank 14x20x27 inches

They all sort of had funny poo especially the catfish - sometimes 12-20" long (catfish only)

Moved the 5 discus to a hospital tank and treat them with 6x 400 mcg trichozole per day for about 2 weeks. Water change about 50% per day. Then kept changing water at about 40% per day for another week,.

Moved the 5 discus from the hosptial tank to a new aquarium. This aquarium (freshly setup) had the external canister filter from the hospital tank.

Now I moved the discus from the main tank(still going at this time) to the hospital tank with the filter from the main tank. He is still in there. He was treated with 3x400mcg trichozole per day for about a week.

His colour is more uniform than it was previously. I think he is happer except being cramped.

Original aquarium now empty.

Disc now in the newly setup 350 Litre aquarium.

I will do some water checks tonight - not enough time this morning before work.

[LYNDYLOO]

Hi Chris,

Sorry to hear you are having problems with your Discus.

I was told by Discusguru when I had a Discus that wasn't looking to good, to treat with, 400mg of Metro per 40 Ltrs of Water, treat every 8-12 hours, as Metro will not be effective after 8-12 hours, I would treat at 8am in the morning then do 100% Water Change before treating again at 8pm at night. Did this for a Total of 6 Tablets.

To do a 100% Water Change, I used to take water from the Hospital Tank and place in a bucket, net the Discus then place into the Bucket, fully drain the Tank, wipe out with a clean cloth, then refill with Water a similar temp to the Water that has been drained from the Tank. Re Net the Discus and pop him back into the Tank.

My Discus would end up happily swimming into the net for me after a couple of treatments, so shouldn't be to difficult for you.

If you are needing some Metro I have a few spare, $1 a Tablet + Postage.

Good Luck

Lynda

[iisfaq]

Hi

Thanks for the offer but I still have some Trichozole at the moment (I may need it in the future - but I have a good relationship with the vet - with Two Rotties, and 2 Abbysissians + Fish - about $600 in the last month - not just fish)

My Discus are all large - about 5" or more top to bottom. They hate being moved and I hate it too. Does't that cause more stress?

I just did the water tests in the new aquarium

PH : 7.2 - 7.4 (somewhere in there)

Amonia : 0ppm

Nitrite : 0ppm

Nitrate : 0ppm

A quick search online produced this:

Discus are very particular about pH. Keep your pH below 7 and above 5.5. The ideal pH for discus is 6. At pH levels above 7, discus are stressed.

So I need to get the PH down. I have heard that drift wood can lower PH? The article below refers to peat moss but I do not know about that stuff.

"

Discus are very particular about pH. Keep your pH below 7 and above 5.5. The ideal pH for discus is 6. At pH levels above 7, discus are stressed. Below 5.5, the pH is inclined to plunge rapidly, so I find 6 to be comfortable for both the fish and the fishkeeper. Alkalinity and pH are closely related. Hard water naturally tends to be alkaline. Soft water naturally tends to be acidic. This is because of the buffering capacity. Buffering capacity represents the presence of alkalinity (carbonate hardness) and the ability of the water to maintain high pH. It is a chemical balancing act. Just enough carbonate hardness and the pH remains at the desired level, too much carbonate hardness and the pH will remain high, too little carbonate hardness and the pH will crash. Maintain your carbonate hardness at around 10 or 15 dH and you should have no problems with pH. Check your pH with every water change until you are able to get a feel for how your water behaves. If you notice that the pH drops quickly, you must add back carbonate. If your pH resists change to lower values, you must remove carbonate. There are many methods of lowering your pH, most with some form of phosphoric acid, from drops to powders, but one of the gentlest and safest methods is through the use of peat moss. Because the peat adsorbs carbonates and acidifies the water, you should be able to maintain desirable pH and carbonate levels through the use of peat alone."

http://www.netpets.com/fish/reference/f ... water.html

chris

[Bilbo]

pH from 6 to 8 is fine. Doesnt matter really as long as its stable.

Breeding is a different story but keeping 7.4 is fine. Dont play with it. Just make sure that it doesnt jump around when doing water changes. The 40% per day you mentioned is a pretty good start so keep that going. Thats about 150 ltrs by my calculations so it becomes very hard to treat that each day and get it exactly the same. 7.4 or even 8 is perfectly fine. Loads of the best discus keepers I know them in high pH.

If you are going to treat it then remember pH is not really an accurate or good measure of water quality. Sulphuric acid, HCL or pH Down (sodium biphosphate) can dangerous but you can safely go to pH 4's by filtering through peat for some fish. I have some apisto's swimming in pH 4ish happy as a pig in mud but the same pH meter would measure the same pH if I used pH Down but I would have a pile of dead fish.

5 x 5" discus in a 14 x 20 x 27 (25 gal) would probably cause more stress than moving them.

Your new tank is bare bottom? or if not by "freshly setup" you mean setup and left to stabilize and cycle for a month or so before adding $500 - $1000 worth of fish into it I hope.

[iisfaq]

Your new tank is bare bottom? or if not by "freshly setup" you mean setup and left to stabilize and cycle for a month or so before adding $500 - $1000 worth of fish into it I hope.

I would like to say so - but no - the substrate is basically the same as this photo

It was setup for about 48 hours with cold water and then bought up to temperature.

Then discus put into it

Chris