Injured fish looking very sick - help please

[stillnzcookie]

Hi, I posted a thread last week on the beginners forum about our harlequin rasboras getting into fights. Two of them are looking pretty sick at the moment, and I'm wondering what the best course of action is.

Harlequin 1 has no visible wounds, but has white/grey/opaque patches (possibly slimy?) at the base of several fins and on its body. It is swimming with its nose pointing slightly upwards and is gasping all the time. It looks very unhappy.

Harlequin 2 has a huge wound (hole) just in front of its tail, on both sides of its body. On one side it has been alternating between being bloody and being white, and I really thought it was getting better, but tonight I noticed it was bloody again, then when I checked 30 minutes later it had turned white and had a white string hanging off it. (could it be a worm?) It has also started gasping. It looks as though all its insides could fall out, the hole is so big in comparison to its body.

Both fish have been eating still and swimming around with the others, but are slightly less active than the three healthy harlequins. Annoyingly, they are both still trying to fight the other fish!

I am also getting concerned about one of our panda cories. It has been really fat for ages, and I wondered if it is a female and full of eggs, but it is now looking very lopsided - one side is a lot fatter than the other.

The tank is 60l, temp 25 degrees (but fluctuates 22-26.5), Ph is currently 7.0 (as I mentioned in my other thread, we struggle to keep it stable), ammonia, nitrite, nitrate all 0. We do weekly water changes of 30-50%, last one was done two days ago. Tank currently has 5 harlequins and 3 panda cories, so is definitely not overstocked! Tank has driftwood and java fern, and I have just added some taller plants for the harlequins (but not tall enough yet - lfs only had little plants).

Thanks for any advice - I'm worried about my fishies

[whetu]

Oh I'm sorry to hear about your problems with this tank. It must be very distressing for you.

I really don't know what can be causing these problems - you seem to be doing everything right but it's still going wrong! Do you have another tank that you can move the sick fish into? Then you could try some medications if you choose - without having to medicate the whole tank. I would suggest getting some kind of antiseptic from your local fish shop first as it sounds like the two sick fish may have some kind of infection.

Unfortunately I think the harlequin with a hole in its body sounds like it might be too far gone to be able to be helped. It might be time to put it out of its misery, and concentrate on helping the other sick fish, and preventing anyone else becoming sick.

Good luck.

[stillnzcookie]

Thanks for the reply, whetu.

No, we don't have a second tank, and would have nowhere to put one even if we did. I put some more Stress Coat in the tank today, as it says it is for healing fish as well as removing chlorine, but I'm not sure how often you can add this/whether you need to do a water change every time you add it. Can anyone advise on this, as the last thing I want to do right now is poison the tank!

You suggested antiseptic - is there anything that can either go in the tank without affecting healthy fish, or is it possible to put a sick fish in another container just to treat it and then put it back in the tank? We have some Acriflavine 5%, which we got to treat fungus on a cory last year, but I have just googled it and found it is an antiseptic, so that might be worth a try? We were told to net the fish out and apply it directly, rather than adding it to the tank - is that correct?

Both harlequins are still swimming round and eating, so they are not yet at the stage that I would send them to the great toilet bowl in the sky. The one with the hole actually looks perkier than the other one and is a better colour - not sure what the white thing was last night, but it's gone now and the hole seems to have healed over a bit. I come out every morning worried at what I'll find, and each day they're still swimming around, eating, chasing the others and acting remarkably normally. They're certainly tough little fish!

[darkfur]

if you don't have a spare tank what you can do is put a fizzy drink bottle or a jar into the tank so that it's getting the warmth, and use that as an isolation tank. It will need its own (gentle) airstone, and just take water from the tank to fill it. Feed lightly as it will get dirty fast

[LYNDYLOO]

Or Float an Ice Cream Container in the Tank with the Sick Fishys in that.

You will need to change the Water on a regularly as it willget dirty very quickly.

I would be trying abit of Acriflavine and Malachite Green, remember to get the Dosage right, don't wont to kill these little fellas with overdosing the container they are in.

Good Luck

[darkfur]

tonic salt and melafix are other possible treatments but they sound like they are gonna need the "big guns" treatments. With making up the treatments I think Lyndy is onto something, with such small amounts might pay to scoop out the water you are going to fill your container with, measure it and make up the medication in a measuring jug then put it into the hospital container

[VinsonMassif]

Tonic salt is merely Sodium chloride. Save your money and use table salt. About the only real use for it is if you are putting it on an open wound the fish has. Salt has almost no medicinal uses internally.

[darkfur]

table salt usually has iodine added which is toxic to fish. especially sick ones! that said, you can get salt that does not have iodine added to it at the supermarket. its use is as a mild disinfectant

[VinsonMassif]

table salt usually has iodine added which is toxic to fish. especially sick ones! that said, you can get salt that does not have iodine added to it at the supermarket. its use is as a mild disinfectant

I use rock salt with no iodine. But I suppose that is a valid point.

[SamH]

Unfortunately when fish get sick, it's hard to fix them.

My Harlequins had some sort of disease, I think it was fin rot, and they got white stuff all over them. Moved them to a hospital tank and they died over the next two days.

If the fish are suffering I can recommend a humane way to put them out of it.

[stillnzcookie]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I think we will put them in a smaller container and try the acriflavine and see what happens. I'm tempted to only treat the one with the hole first, as the other one has lost all the white patches (after I added stress coat), so has no visible marks at the moment (but is still gasping, and swimming with its nose pointing slightly upwards some of the time). So, I think I'll keep adding stress coat to the whole tank, and just keep doing lots of water changes in there to keep things as clean as possible, and isolate one fish and try to treat it.

Can anyone answer the following questions, please:

1. How often can you add stress coat (at the recommended dose) and do you need to change the water every time you add it?

2. How long do you treat with acriflavine? Is it a single dose, and if so, how long do I leave the fish in there? If I am changing the water, do I need to top up the acriflavine?

3. Do I put stress coat in with acriflavine?

4. How often do I change the water in the container?

5. Should I keep the fish isolated until it gets better, or do I treat it then put it back in the tank?

[darkfur]

1. you can't overdose stress coat or so we are told but I don't think fishes like swimming in pure stress coat add it when you change the water in the container

2. Dr Axelrod says for bacterial tail and fin rot, add acriflavine, wait 3 days, change the water for fresh water, wait one day, do 3 days of acriflavine again.

3. If you want - might as well when you do the water change. Probably soothes the sore bits on the fish, has a healing action and treats the water too.

4. As per 2, but if the water gets scummy or the fish seem (more)distressed you might have to change to fresh water sooner.

5. Keep it isolated until its better, and so you can treat it easier

+ Dr Axelrod says after treatment if the finrot is advancing you might have to snip off the rotting bits with a sterilised pair of scissors to avoid the infection spreading. hopefully won't come to that. He says if it is already super-severe amputate the rotting bits and then do the acriflavine treatment

Best of luck!

+ They're gonna need lots of air to cope with this, make sure you have an airstone in there although not so much air that they are getting buffeted around

[darkfur]

PS Dr Axelrod doesn't like your chances with the one with the hole in it sorry

I'd think about treating the whole tank with something too, perhaps something milder like Wunder Tonic (avail any pet store - its bluey) then doing a large water change

[LYNDYLOO]

Acriflavine and Malachite Green are a great mixture :bounce:

The Guy at Wet Pets gave it to me once, it worked great.

Dosed with Treatment, left it in the Tank for 3 days, did 50% Water Change then redosed

I would seriously think about Treating the Whole Tank too, better to be on the Safe Side, don't want anymore Sick Fishys.

[darkfur]

I think that's more or less what Wunder Tonic has in it, but I think it may have one other goodie as well

[stillnzcookie]

Thanks, we'll buy an airstone and give that a try. I think we will treat both fish and see what happens, but I don't think we'll treat the whole tank at this stage. As both fish were injured through fighting, I'm hoping there's nothing contagious.

Neither fish seems to be getting worse, and they've hung on for so long, but they don't seem to be getting better either, so they need medication. I guess it will be a kill-or-cure treatment...

[whetu]

Good on you, cookie. It's really all you can do for them. Good luck to the little fishies to get well soon! :bounce:

[stillnzcookie]

Bother, bother, bother! Went to pet shop this morning to get an airstone, and they are closed all weekend for stocktake (before anyone asks, there's nowhere else in Timaru, and Ashburton and Oamaru closed at midday). We have euthanased the fish with the hole, as it rapidly got worse this morning , so hopefully the other one will hang on until Monday and we can start treatment then...

[stillnzcookie]

Right, we've set up a container as a hospital tank. It's got 2L of water, and a filter and air pump for a nano tank - it was just as cheap to buy the whole kit as to get an air pump and airstone. I've also put a small plastic plant in to give the fish some shelter, and we had to put gravel in the bottom to stabilise it in the main tank. So it's a bit flasher than we originally intended!

We had to alter the filter, as it came with a sealed unit full of carbon, so we cut it open and replaced the carbon with a bit of coral rock from our other filter, filled the container with water from the main tank, added stress coat and acriflavine.

We put the fish in on Monday, so tomorrow we'll replace the water, give it a day, then dose with acriflavine again (as per darkfur's advice - thanks)

The fish is still swimming with its tail slightly down (it almost looks like it has a sore back), and is very keen to get back with its tank-mates, but apart from the odd swimming angle, I can't see anything wrong with it. It is eating fine, and can swim fine, but is resting quite a lot of the time. So what do you think I should do after the treatment is finished? If it is still swimming funny, but has nothing else obviously wrong with it, do I put it back in the tank?

I think the fish that we euthenased may have been the main aggressor as, since it has gone, the corys are swimming all over the tank again, and not just staying at the bottom. So fingers crossed, we'll have an easier time from now on! The harlequins in the main tank are a bit subdued now there are only 3 of them, so I hope we can get everything going well again and get some more soon!

[stillnzcookie]

Sadly, we had to put our wee fishie out of its misery. We treated it in the container with Acriflavine (3 days, then clean water for a day, then another 3 days). By the end of treatment, its body looked completely normal, but it was still gasping a bit and swimming with its nose higher than its tail. It seemed to be eating normally, but was getting a bit skinny. We put it back in the main tank for a day, but it started heading downhill again, so we decided to not let it suffer any more

On the positive side, we have managed to get some more plants for our tank, so the remaining Harlequins can hide if they want to, and we seem to have a fairly stable and healthy tank at the moment. Long may it continue...

[SamH]

I have a couple of fish that may need to be euthanised soon. May I ask how you did it? It's okay if you can't say.

Thanks

[stillnzcookie]

I'm a wuss, so my husband does it. Blunt force trauma... it's messy but quick, so hopefully the fish never knows what hit it. This link was in another post as well (in Diseases - Dropsy?):

Found some really good articles on UB if anyone wants a good read:

Euthinasia: http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=15737

Afterlife: http://www.ultimatebettas.com/index.php?showtopic=5026

Good luck.

Hope that helps - sorry you have sick fish

[SamH]

I just put one of my Betta's that had severe fin rot out of his misery today. Put osme water in a little plastic container in the freezer, waited till it had iced over and broke the ice. Netted him from the tank and dropped him in the water. He went motionless, went nuts, then stopped. He's in the freezer at the moment. Much nicer than dropping them in boiling water. (The above quote was mine )

[BikBok]

I just put one of my Betta's that had severe fin rot out of his misery today. Put osme water in a little plastic container in the freezer, waited till it had iced over and broke the ice. Netted him from the tank and dropped him in the water. He went motionless, went nuts, then stopped. He's in the freezer at the moment. Much nicer than dropping them in boiling water. (The above quote was mine )

That sounds hideous! would you do it that way aagin?

I still think using clove oil as a prior to any chosen method is the best way to go.

[SamH]

I think it was just his nervous system. He went belly up pretty quickly and it's far less grousome than decapition or slamming him into a wall.

I might have to do it again, female with possible dropsy :-? .

I didn't have any clove oil and his whole bottom (scientific name for fin?) fin went red. By tomorrow he would have had nearly no fins. This was much more humane than just leaving him.