Sump in Freshie Tank

[Fmxmatt]

This may have been posted before, but I've decided to post instead of search, so sue me

My old 5ft Marine tank has a sump. At some point, I want to set this up as a freshwater tropical tank.

Do I block off the overflow bits and get a filter to suit the display, or is it common practice to utilize a sump the same way a marine tank does? If so, do I get a normal external filter for the sump, or do I set this up with baffles etc to run my own kind of filter? (I.e same way a filter works with the different portions of filter media)

All the plumbing is done in the tank so I would be keen to use it, also to hide stuff like heaters and filter pieces, BUT, I also want to know if it causes any problems, and if it would be easier not to have one etc.

Livingart, I've been told you run sumps on your freshwater tanks, I would be keen to hear your input aswel

Cheers

[HaNs]

Run the sump, they are great for FW

[lmsmith]

Sumps are the best thing ever. Use it, they're great.

[Fmxmatt]

Good stuff. I had read a few articles on the net that were against it, so I wasn't sure.

Seems the feedback is unanamous

So which way to do it tho? Its a 520 Litre display, 100 Litre Sump. Do I just run the sump like a tank, or do I setup baffles? If I setup baffles, do I run the sump AS a filter, or do I get an external filter which is rated to 650+ litres?

[lmsmith]

You don't need baffles; they're for getting microbubbles out. If you already have them though, leave them there, they can't hurt. Run the sump as a filter with biological and mechanical filtration, and if you want, also run a canister off the (clean side) sump. The canister doesn't need to be rated for the full size of the tank, but it's a great way to have a filter ready for emergencies.

[Fmxmatt]

All but 1 baffle were removed as I was fitting a large skimmer, so its the pipe from the tank into 1 chamber, fills up and tips into a big chamber which has the return pump.

I can add baffles again, but considering the above, could I get away with filter media in just the first chamber?

[lmsmith]

Lol, as you can see, there are lots of ways to do it. If it was me, I'd run it as a wet/dry sump, and just have the canister on there as a spare, rather than to really filter. However, what Mystic's saying will work just as well, and she's totally right, you can NEVER overfilter, so if you can, add a nice big canister and you'll have an awesome nicely filtered tank, AND a spare filter.

If the baffles are out, just add the media into bags (like orange bags or something) to keep it together. There's no real reason to add them once they're out, as you can hold the media in things to stop them getting mixed up and keeping them easy to clean.

[livingart]

cheap sump i made on the 2.4m freshwater community tank

[lmsmith]

Can you please label/describe the bits?

[livingart]

Can you please label/describe the bits?

NOW YOUR BEING DIFFICULT

large white thing on upper rigt is the air pump

trickle tower is overflow from tank flushing onto a column of pumice

then into bio balls under baffle into more bio balls and pumice

i added the java moss to trap more sediment

then back to tank through pump in clear space (refugium?)

all up except the pump and bio balls cost 41 dollars

the lid of the plastic box goes back on top with hole cut for trickle tower

[Navarre]

Hi There,

I use sumps on my 6x2 and 4x18 and on several of my breeding stand.

Sumps work best with slow flow so you may need to work out an internal flow ( just like marine). depends on type of fish.

Also sumps remove CO2 so if you are going to plant then you need to allow for that or not use one.

Sumps ize is up to you. I have seen the smallest sumps around and they work cause they are mainatined.

BUT I work on a minimum of 10% of tank total volume as an "at least" size.

This increases water volume and helps hide all that stuff you dont want to see.

I would use baffles every time if I could and mould them to fit heater etc as thsi does mean you cant really (you can but its diificult) use the sump as an extra tank but it does help with planning flow and cleaning etc.

HTH

Navarre

[David R]

or is it common practice to utilize a sump the same way a marine tank does?

Firstly, do you want it as a sump, or as a wet/dry trickle filter?

If the latter, you don't want it set up as you'd have it for a reef tank, but as you would for a fish only with no live rock (minus the skimmer).

This is how I have my sumps set up for fresh water tanks, its about the 100th time I've posted this pic here, but its far easier than trying to describe it.

*doh, I can't actually post it any more because its too big apparently. Just click the link, and if you're on dial up don't worry, its a massive 42kb so won't take too long to load...

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k186/ ... /Sump2.jpg

I use that as the sole filtration on my big tanks, no canisters etc.

Navarre why do you say a slower turn over is better? :-?

[Navarre]

I was under the impression that if you are using a sump then you need to allow time for all those bacteria to do their thing. So mechanical section can have as much water flowing as it can handle but biological section should be slow and steady to allow for the denitryfing bacteria etc to do their thing. Hence most sumps run slower than say a canister filter or the like.

Just my impression tho and if what you do works for you then so be it

Navarre

[David R]

I guess it would depend on how the sump is set up, and as with most things there is a happy medium between toio fast and too slow. Having slower flow could be an advantage if the bio media is submerged and the water flows through baffles, but if its trickling over the media above the water then you would want more water flowing through it to keep the media wet.

[Navarre]

Good point David.

My mistake as I thought we were talking about sumps proper rather than trickle filters or towers.

One of teh guys here has a 6x2x2 tank that has a small sump and a glass tower the height of his tank ( about 1200 from memory) The water flows very quickly thru the tower of media but is "perculated" in the sump thru all sorts of stuff. Best of both worlds perhaps?

Thsi works well for him but is not for me as I prefer all my tanks to have the sumps above or below the main tanks

Good luck with how your one works out Matt

Nav

[smidey]

keep this in mind, a sump could be referred as an un-pressurised canister filter as it basically works the same. water in & out through some other parts to filter it.

The canisters are rated on flow not litres they hold. So as long as the water is flowing through media that filters & maintaines bacteria that cleanse the water then it will do the same job.

if the water flows into the sump, through filter wool it will remove solid matter, then through media like bioballs etc it will then have bacteria taking out what it needs to etc & then flow through to where the pump is to return it back to the tank & so the circuit starts again. Its up to the flow that you want & the pump you use that determines the amount of filtration you get.

at the end of the day, it doesn't need to be to complicated as livingart has shown.

here are some pics of a basic sump for a big tank that also doubles as a fry tank

[livingart]

nice sump smidey

in my photo it is both trickle tower and sump set up

the tower goes to bottom of sump with holes in underwater section

best of both worlds

narrow tower has fast flow, slower through baffles as wider

just an idea

[David R]

My mistake as I thought we were talking about sumps proper rather than trickle filters or towers.

We probably were, but its one of those things where the names always get muddled up so I thought I'd mention the trickle or wet/dry style "sump" as well. From what I hear having the media above water is far more efficient because of the oxygen/water ratio. The sump I posted a pic of will sit nicely under my tank, I guess it depends how tall you want the stand.

[smidey]

nice sump smidey

in my photo it is both trickle tower and sump set up

the tower goes to bottom of sump with holes in underwater section

best of both worlds

narrow tower has fast flow, slower through baffles as wider

just an idea

don't get me wrong, i meant is was not complicated

after re-reading what i wrote changing the sentence structure will help

at the end of the day, livingart has shown it doesn't need to be to complicated.

[livingart]

never took it any other way

amazing what a comma does

i keep on havng to check my posts before submit button :oops:

[lmsmith]

I love the idea of doubling the sump as a fry tank, I might have to steal that idea!