cichlid7 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 http://www.stuff.co.nz/4841343a12.html http://www.stuff.co.nz/4842072a11.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 it is pretty awful. Though the thing that always frustrates me is their bush is SUPPOSED to have small regular fires to clear away the kindling so big fires aren't as regular or destructive. But now every little fire is put out so there are masses of kindling everywhere. Small, regular, controlled burnoffs are what is needed. But no, people think stopping small fires and not doing controlled burnoffs is safer and better for the environment :roll: I am NOT making light of it or whatever, death by fire has always terrified me. What I am saying is this is almost totally preventable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 The other really awful thing about this is that they think some of the fires were deliberately lit - and possibly some deliberately re-lit after they had brough them under control. If this is true, it's a really awful thing to do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 that is shocking! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Wow Stella Controlled burn offs are still done As happens every year the areas concerned are very very dry and huge temps Its not totally preventable though living in some of these areas are higher risks then others Sure more burning shuld be undertaken but with something like this where everything in nature is eared towards a massive destructive fire it wouldnt have made any difference unless the entire bush was cleared Some of these people who survived talked about driving at over 140kmh to try and get away from the flames and still they just made it Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowfax Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 its so sad seeing what has happened on the news. its not something we deal with here & really we dont have any room to comment on what could of prevented it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Brad, I don't think it is preventable, but... the frequency and impacts could be lessened. Of course I don't know a huge amount of this, you are obviously in a better position to know the detail. It is silly the way people think they can live anywhere and control nature. The Manawatu used to be swamp forest, essentially an enormous wetland. Now the forest is gone and the land is drained for agriculture and people are horrified at the floods we get. Go figure :roll: We can't keep changing the environment to suit us, or living in more extreme places, and expect nature to start playing by our rules. 140km.... horrible though people running out of petrol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowfax Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 What I am saying is this is almost totally preventable. Brad, I don't think it is preventable :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I agree living in some areas is going to be in a higher risk And your right about changing the enviroment Over Millions of years these fires have been going through and destroying the forest but with fire and destruction comes life again Though sadly this doesnt work for us humans What has happened is a massive tragedy and will never be forgotten What makes it worse is they are sure this fire was deliberating lit I dont understand how someone could light a fire especially around a massive forest that is so dry you know for sure how big it will become Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 OK, I am surprised I made such a sweeping generalisation :oops: I actually mean the FREQUENCY and SEVERITY. Yes there will be fires. Yes there will be enormous, really bad ones. With serious, regular, controlled and managed fires, then ON AVERAGE there will not be as many huge bad ones. By 'this is preventable' the first time, I should have explained further: these enormous international news headline fires (ok this one was more destructive than usual) are happening with alarming regularity. I am not an expert on it, but these fires ARE made worse by human activities and inaction. I do hope the arsonists are found and lynched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 What hit them in this round of fires was the Winds. They are used to, and prepared for normal bush fires. They burn across the ground and you can fight them with fire breaks and hoses. Thats consdered 'normal',. you stay and defend your home from a 'grass' fire. What they had this time as a firestorm, where the flames jump from tree crown to crown in a suburban area at 100 k/p/h. You just cant defend against that. So what worked for the last 20 years, was just overwhelmed by flames Ian Edit : ligthing a fire in those conditons is like throwing a petrol bomb into a Kindy or old folks home, and should be treated the same! #$%^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I agree you cant defend against a fire like that Also that part of Australia has been in a drought for along time Plus parts were so hot in the last few weeks averaging over 40c for nearly a week Also I hope they find the culprits and they get what they deserve This is the worst fire ever in Australian history but the first massive one since Ash wednesday quite a few years ago If we could stop people lighting these fires which seems to happen everywhere around the world then we could see a massive drop in lives lost Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Every time I see the horrific images and hear the terrible stories of the survivors, I can't help wondering what the arsonists could possibly have been thinking when (if) they lit the fires. Ok I know it's only speculation at the moment until the investigations are complete, but did these people have even the remotest clue about the death and devastation they were going to cause? Are they sitting at home watching the news, torn with guilt over what they have done? Or thrilled and excited at the notoriety they are getting? Or perhaps they perished in the fires themselves (perhaps the only just outcome). I know nobody knows any answers yet, but (if there were arsonists involved) it is just such a mind-bogglingly stupid and/or wicked thing to do that it is beyond the comprehension of ordinary people. RIP to the innocent people who have died in these fires, and my sympathies to their families and friends and those who have lost so much. P.S. One of my colleagues has lost several members of his family and has returned to Australia to be with his remaining family. Perhaps why I am finding this situation so difficult and emotional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 Every time I see the horrific images and hear the terrible stories of the survivors, I can't help wondering what the arsonists could possibly have been thinking when (if) they lit the fires. Exhiliration Control Power but did these people have even the remotest clue about the death and devastation they were going to cause? Some: yes When people feel out of control of their lives, they seek anything to get that feeling of control back. When people feel they have no status, they do what they can to gain some form of status, either from their friends, peers, family, wider circles, or society at large. Some seek status in a positive way, some in a negative way. This basic part of human nature is what is really behind: Flash car/house ownership. "keeping up with the Jones" Encouraging your kids to be a doctor/lawyer rather than a plumber/labourer the drive for fame (thousands of people effectively approving of you, saying 'yes you are good') as well as: Boy racers (status amongst peers as well as status through notoriety) Controlling behaviour towards your partner/children. Anorexia and bulimia and self-harm (where the control is directed privately toward the body) Racial supremacy beliefs (scapegoat others to feel better) Many religious converts (the religion offered answers and control of life at a time when people felt out of control, or the status of being 'saved' or conversely, no longer sinful) General aggressiveness (if other people are scared of you, you have power) Crime (status is gained by the 'have-nots' taking posessions for themselves, as well as 'punishing' the 'haves' for having more than them) Rape (we all know it is not about sex, it is about power) ..........and many many more Studies are showing that this behaviour, this drive for status, is evolved behaviour (not learned) that is an innate part of us. The learning is in WHAT things will bring us status. BIt of a tangent, but yeah, that is probably what is behind these arsonists' thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 and if you need any more convincing, in the words of a boyracer obviously seeking the status of notoriety: http://www.stuff.co.nz/4844547a1861.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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