ally07 Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 Current water condition: ammonia - 0 nitrite - 0 nitrate - 1.0 I notice a coil looking lump or bump on the left side of his body with abit of redness. He has been behaving normally, eating well. I've tried using salt treatment but there's no improvement at all. what is wrong and what should i do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melrick1 Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 what have you been feeding him? not lots of blood worm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snookie Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 he may of not deflated properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 He is fed frozen insects (they're actually turtle treats) which he enjoys, 6 days a week. I'm not sure if he's deflated properly or not, but he was fine before, then this came up, and he hasn't been taken out of the water or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 puffers are sensitive to nitrates. could be the food, in the wild, what do they eat. for most fish - we can alter this but puffers, really should not take much deviation to this. i think shrimp should be the main diet. or shelffish. they are from brackish water meaning that they eat marine animals too. i suggest googling PUFFER forums over seas. Due to the fact that nz has limited puffers, we here have limited number of experiences. something like that, i really think you should get to it and ask other puffer forums, puffer forums in US, UK canada etc would be better. Or monsterfishkeepers.com has a puffer forum i think, guaranteed that someone there will be able to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 He's overeaten. Puffers don't have ribs, so they have massive problems with eating too much and not being able to digest it properly. Don't feed him for 2 - 3 days, and if it doesn't go down, let us know. It could be internal parasites, puffers are almost all wildcaught so often have bugs, and interestingly enough, sometimes get fat, not skinny with some internal parasites. You said he's swimming properly, so it's not a delation problem, if it was, he'd constantly float. You need to feed him snails daily, or something else crunchy to grind down his teeth, or they'll grow too much and he won't be able to eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 I did read somewhere that insects are a part of puffers' diets in the wild, so I don't think that is the problem. I would feed him mussels and shrimp, but he is still really small, so I have to cut the shellfish into ridiculously minute pieces for him, and even then he's not as keen on shellfish as insects. I do throw snails in, but as I said, due to his size, I can't get snails the size of his eyeball. I think that would be the size of a . He prefers to suck the snails out of their shells anyway, which is quite annoying once the empty shells start piling up. I have tried fasting him for 2 days, but his stomach just "deflates", leaving the bulge on the side. I suspect it might be an internal parasite, but I'm not sure, and I don't know how to proceed to treat it either.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 When feeding, you shouldn't cut the shellfish etc up for him, the point is that he takes some effort biting at it so it helps wear down his teeth. Fig 8 puffers come from the southeast coast of asia, so although they are sold in freshwater, most people have found they do best when their water conditions are brackish (1.005- 1.008sg). So, I'm voting for parasite now. Puffers sometimes get a worm infestation called a nematode. They are worms that get under their skin into their organs, and in their gills. You can treat them, but you have no way of getting the worm out, and they usually rot inside them, which eventually poisions them and they die. You can treat them with Flubenol. Some people have tried operating, and some have even been successful. Basically, if you don't remove them or kill them, they'll keep doing damage to his organs, and he'll eventually die. That's probably not what you wanted to hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Yeah, I know, but even if I throw in half a mussel it's too much for him to finish in one "sitting", and quarters are too small for him to get much biting out of it. If he makes it to get bigger then I'll definitely feed him more shellfish. I sorta suspected a parasite as well, but I don't know much about puffers' parasites. Now that you've mentioned worms, it sounds plausible, because the lump in his side looks like a coil, almost like a worm is coiled up in his body. Is there anywhere I can get the "surgery" done? I highly doubt if I could successfully perform such an operation, but I don't think vets do these kinds of things either.. It's not what I wanted to hear, but thanks for the input, at least now I know what it is. He still seems quite happy in the tank, swimming around and eating well, so I'll try to make him comfortable before he eventually becomes fish food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 I'm not sure if there are any fish vets in auckland, you're best asking people who live up that way. If he does die, make sure you take him out of the tank straight away, because the other fish can contract the worms too (although nematodes aren't as common in other types of fish). Maybe take him out, treat the tank. Ideally, you want to keep him separate just in case it infects your other fish. You say it looks like a worm coiled inside him, usually it's a group of 4-12 of them, and they grow bigger and bigger. They can move around under the skin, so don't be surprised if they shift underneath or even to the other side of him. I guess the moral of the story is to worm all wild caught fish, and quarantine them for at least 4- 6 weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Well, I came home this evening and my puffer didn't greet me. When I looked in the back of the tank, there he was on the floor, motionless. I've taken the body out of the tank, and I tried to do an autopsy, but I didn't see any worm-like creatures, so maybe I just don't know what they look like. The procedure was emotionally taxing to say the least - having to mutilate a pet's body is not something I care to repeat. What is the most effective course of treatment now? How long should I continue it for? Thanks for all your help.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Sorry to hear about your fish, you need a microscope and to know what your looking for to find the worms.. Treatment depends on what type of worm it is there are alot of drugs to try some easy to get some hard depending on what it is.. I suspect from the description at the bottom you probably had Camallanus or similar. It is one of the easier ones to treat as the drugs are easy to get, you need to get Levamisole Hydrochloride (avaliable as a bird wormer called aviverm from your vets or online). Do a water change and then dose at 2mg per L (1ml per 115L) do a water change after 24hours (to remove any worms that are paralysed in the substrate. Do this 2-3 times (3 times recommended) weekly as the drug doesn't kill eggs and these will hatch so you need to break the cycle. HTH I have just treated all my fish using these methods not because I was having trouble but to ensure that I don't have any in the future, all new arrivals will be q tined and treated the same way. Nematode infections in fish will present with one or more of the following externally observable symptoms: 1. Hemorrhaging (bloody streaks in fins or body) 2. White/translucent stringy feces 3. Inflammation 4. External lumps or nodules 5. Necrosis (dead or dying tissue) 6. Cysts 7. Granulomas - which are a reaction by immune cells trying to wall off some foreign body (like a worm). They can look like little brown rocks in the shape of the worm but will have a distinct clear edge. 8. Wasting 9. Bloated abdomen with fish exhibiting otherwise normal behavior 10. Worms protruding from the anus (specifically Camallanus) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Great, thanks for that info.. But what if the new arrivals have worms, wouldn't the treatment kill them as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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