dan_from_nz Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Hi there i am new to the web site and relatively new to the hobby (2 years with tropical fresh water fish) I have had good luck in the hobby so far and like to D.I.Y. different accesories to get an optimumly running fish tank. I now want to move on to a marine tank and am a little intimidated by all of the knowledge required. I have been reading about marine tanks for about three months now and think I am almost ready to start building a tank. My main concern is with My freshwater set up I was constantly upgrading meaning at the end of the day i waisted a hell of a lot of money and it took so much longer to have a set up i was pleased with ( although i dont think i will ever fully be pleased). From what I can understand well cycled water is best and because i dont want to waist money and want to go straight to a big reef tank is it best to do things in stages starting with a bare tank just sitting there circulating water and make additions from there or is there more to it than that???? I am also unsure about sumps and how the pumps don't eventually overflow one of the tanks are they opperated off switches that measure the water level of the sump or do you just have to hope that both power heads flow at the same rate???? Can you still buy live rock? My friend told me that due to NZ quarantine laws we can't get real live rock is this so? or is there another way to get live rock? Your help would be much appreciated thanks alot Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Daniel, where in NZ do you live? Before buying anything I think it would be a good idea to go and visit someones tank to see how it is setup, it is quite different to freshwater, even in the basic tank configuration. I would say that if you want to keep a wide variety of livestock a 6 foot tank is probably the smallest I would go for. NZ quarantine requires that live rock be stored dry for 3 weeks (unless there have been changes recently to this) but there are sources of dead rock which has been reseeded to start your tank off. The basic keys to a successful reef are: Big skimmer, High waterflow Lots of light patience What size tank are you looking at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 i totaly agree with iduncan go see as many setups as you can take your time on the setup and get every thing right before adding water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Agree with the above, also dont forget lots more money compared to freshwater (in general) You can try diy and save $$$ but just be aware that if it doesnt work, you may need to fork out thousands to make up for it later on. Just like building a house, take the quote/budget you or someone else has provided and add at least 20%. Im not wanting to scare you off, but its effectively a tradeoff between money & time. The unfortunate thing I have found is that the more money you spend... the more money you spend! Its because you want to protect your investment. Say you've invested $4k on your tank so far and you find out that for an extra $500 you could have got tunze streams instead for better water flow and happier corals,... or if only you spent an extra $500 and got metal hallides instead of fluoros you would have healthier corals/been able to keep acro's,... or it hits summer time and you struggle to keep the water temperature down so you need to spend $1500 on a chiller,... or if only you spent $500 more on the next skimmer model up it would keep the water cleaner,... etc etc! I think you get my meaning. If you have researched like it sounds you have, you will do well. Also (perhaps generalising a little) the more $$$ you spend now (or at least budget for), the less you will spend later (not needing to upgrade for example) AND the less time you will need to put into it (all tanks need time assigned for maintenance, thats obvious) Most often than not, spending more on the right equipment the first time will save you alot of money, time and effort in the long run. Go 2nd hand whereever you can. PM Jetskisteve as he will be able to source you plenty of good gear (and right now, potentially some LR) FYI, my $4k budget went to $5k then $7k and now is around $10k (bear in mind however, that this included a tank upgrade (400L total to 1,000L total) and a specialised room for all the filtration equipment!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted August 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 I live in palmerston north is there anyone nearby (i dont mind treveling) that would not mind me having a look at their tank??? i want to go for a five foot tank but am planning on designing it myself so that it is not so deep but has a large quantity of surface area I am thinking of 1500mm x 900mm x 900mm my estimate is taking into account all the additions (sand rock etc) and room at the top of the tank it should hold about 700-800 liters (1215l total capacity) is this large enough? Also my theory in fresh water aquaria is that more filtration the better is this the same with salt water are there any fish stores in the lower north island that are experienced in saltwater i have been to hollywood in mt roskill auckland and jansons just up the road but it is a long drive while i am just trying to research thanks for your help daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 You need to talk to Pies (Mark) he is in Wellington and will offer you mega-advice (and is conveniently only 1 1/2 hrs away) Skimmer will be your #1 purchase. IMO, 900mm is way TOO deep, it will cost you massive $$$ on lighting and not to mention on you power bill!!! Try 700mm deep max. Send a PM to Pies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 I'd say it would be well worth visiting Pies, if you could. If you can get to Auckland, there are plenty of well setup tanks there too. It could save you a lot of money in mistakes. There is nothing like seeing this stuff setup properly in person. I would drop the height from 900mm to 6 or 700mm, then extend it another foot in length. 5 foot vs 6 foot is a reasonable difference. 900mm front to back should give you more options for aquascaping than the standard 600mm. This would be a good size tank to get started, it will allow you to keep just about anything you want. Do you have a budget in mind? The more filtration the better, but it must be the right type of filtration. Jetskisteve or Reef usually have some quality second hand and new equipment for sale, so PM them when you come to making any decisions. Wade through the posts on reefcentral.com and you'll gather a lot of knowledge, the large reef tank forum (even though 5/6 footers are not considered large) has some good general info on setting up tanks. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 too deep try catching a fish in a tank thats a meter deep (just ask steve) the more filtration the better hence the importanse of the skimmer and good rock (the primary biological filtration) calculate the water as though it was empty (ie no rock) finish before you fill if you wanted to travel to auckland there are alot of people that would show you around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted August 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 cheers i will look at re-designing the tank, I will probably get a glazier to build it depending on the price what size glass is best should it be 10mm or 12mm does thicker glass work better in the longrun by keeping heat more stable etc also is a sump a must have?????? can you buy pre-made sumps i am a little nervous about stuffing one up and floding my house and killing my fish and coral etc I am not to worried about the budget because I will do it slowely in stages and i am looking at starting up a pet store so it would all become a tax rite off anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 well if your not worried about the budget then do what ever you want money talks (nb worry) the glass thickness isnt as much about heat as it is about stopping dead fish flopping around in one inch of water on your carpet after the thin glass cracks under the water pressure your metal halides would give most of the heat needed during the day and the heater would buff that and keep it right at night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 depth dictates thicker glass more than anything else. the deeper you go, the more pressure on the glass. Again, speak to Pies, right now both him and I are doing exactly what you are wanting to do (except his will be 2 or 3 times larger!) I consider a sump a must. Depending on your budget and how far you want to take it, see my project on my sump room here: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=2902&start=0 If your house is the same, you could achieve the same results (without the worry of wet carpet every water change and a nice wee reduction in noise level in your house ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 You absolutely MUST have a sump. There are no problems associated with flooding unless the tank is poorly designed or constructed. There is a thread running on this forum on proper sump design. Check that out for ideas. A visit to someones tank will clear up a lot of questions, and would definitely be worth while. With halides, it's more a matter of keeping things cool, rather than heating. If you are getting the tank custom build, add a lot of closed loops. This helps to reduce the need for unsightly powerheads scattered throughout the tank. Some things you can do in stages, some you can't. Get all the pluming done up front well before filling with saltwater. Test with freshwater and make sure you are happy with it before filling with salt water. Get all lighting sorted before filling with water. Get all live rock aquascaped the way you like it before adding livestock. It's much harder to change this with a tank full of coral. Allow the tank to cycle for months with live / dead rock, and add livestock slowly initially. It takes a lot longer for a marine tank to reach equilibrium, and it is far more important than with freshwater that it does. Equipment which can be added later for convenience include: Calcium Reactor Denitrifier Aquarium Controller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 ok i hate typing but as above (mostly) & for a sump ANY old tank will do most guys turn there old tank into a sump when they upgrade . try to look at pies setup (mark) althogh he's off on hols AGAIN on sat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 You absolutely MUST have a sump. There are no problems associated with flooding unless the tank is poorly designed or constructed. Now this is not true. A sump is good and highly reccomended, but its not a 'must have'. And there are far more problems with flooding with a sump than without one (design can mostly elivate this though). Lots of nice sumpless tanks about. PN is less than an hr from my place so pop over. I am in Vanuatu for 2 weeks as of Saturday, but after that its not a problem. I also know an excellent tank maker, plastic cutter (for overlfows) and have a plumbing trade account and Mico. Good luck. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 you know what i mean. No one on this board would consider doing a tank this size without one. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holiday Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 I beg to differ!! My initial setup will be sumpless!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Ok, no one should consider doing a tank that size without one. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 hehehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted September 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 thanks for all your help, and thanks for offering to let me see your tank pies i will talk to you once you are back from you holiday (hope you have fun) what about lids for the tank surely highley powered M.H's shining down on the tank is going to cause a large amount of evaporation does having a lid wreck the light spectrum is it beter to have an open top and how close do you have to keep your eye on the specific gravity (i assume the water evaporates and salt stays in the tank???) I had started designing the tank i decided to go to 1800(L) x 750(H) x 900(B) but then realised that if I make it myself buying the sheets of glass they come in 8' x 7' so it would be no deerer to go 1800 x 750 x 1200 I will make the tank 750 high but the top 200mm - 300mm will be space does this seem like a good idea or is it just a waist???? Thanks for all your replies??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 I don't think I'd go over 600 tall on a tank, and even then it's still tough reaching the bottom of the tank. That's just me though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 i am six foot three with akward lanky arms and i could barley reach the bottom of my 500mm tall tank without stripping and putting my shoulder/head in most salt tanks that i have seen have no glass between the water and the mh unit as the evaporation would cloud up the glass and block the light that you are spending so much money to create auto top off will counter the evaporation and keep the sp reasonably stable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Remember that you don't need to tinker in you tank every day. My current tank is 650 deep and my new tank is 730 deep. It can be awkward but hey you shouldn't be in your tank every day. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Dan, one tank i service is 765 deep & i struggle. I have some big claw grabbers but even with those its hard, try moving a small coral! my own tank is 600 deep i find that ideal IMHO. Pies tank isnt made yet ive tried to convince him its too deep, wait till he drops a frag or small rock :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holiday Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 I agree! 600 is ideal, my tank is 690 and I can just reach the top of the 3 inches of substrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 doc holiday give us some details of you tank. youve been very secretive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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