piggyvir Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 since i have set up a new tank, i have numerous disease break out - white spot, flukes, fin rot, dropsy. 2 fishes died so far and most fish with very ugly tail (12 fish in total). I have been keeping on with changing water, cleaning out filter already and have already reduced the amount of food I have tried white spot remover, tonic, furan2 and melafix and I have stopped everything as well... What should I do now? My fish has having holes in the tail (they have double fin and the holes start developing where two fins joined). One of the tail was torn/split in the middle... is there anything I should do? Also, how often should I check the water quality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Your tank sounds like it is still cycling. Did you cycle it before you added fish? By cleaning the filter out, you've removed most of the good bacteria, causing ammonia, nitrate and nitrite spikes. Most of the things you have mentioned could easily be caused by the tank not cycling. Can you let us know the size of the tank, stocking levels, filtration and what you did to cycle the tank so we can help you better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piggyvir Posted December 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Size of the tank - 210L (Aqua One AR 980, no gravels) Stocking Levels - 10 gold fish (3 orandas and some fan tails) + 1 bottom sucker Filtration - standard internal filter, with the Eheim biological media (I have got the brown round balls and the ceramic rgins) What did I do to cycle the tank? I am not too sure.. i just let it run to be honest The first thing I let it run without fish for 4 hours before I put the fish in.... I bought this tank off trademe and I made a serious a mistake of replacing all the gravels overnight and not cleaning the gravels thoroughly. I bought a 40l pack from Hollywood fishfarm and the gravels are very very dirty Daily operation - I change the water every week, or twice a week depends on the nitrite readings (at one stage, i reached 100 ppm for a while and I just keep on changing water). I clean up the filter wool twice a week these days (used to be once a week, until I hit that 100 ppm nitrite problem). I add stress zyme and accu clear everything I change the water. What's the best test kit to test the water actually? does the testing paper work? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =190988739 Latest discovery - two of my fish got this red mark sore on the edge of the side fin (the one next to the gill) and he seems struggling to swim. Other than the fin problems, my fish eat well, swim well (i.e. not really stay near the filter, on top or at the bottom all the time) and they are very active.... Please help >.< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Hi Piggyvir, if you added all the fish at once to the tank then and then you're probaby still having water quality issues due to it cycling. If you replaced all the gravel then you've probably removed a lot of the 'good' bacteria which live on the gravel and help with processing the fish waste. Try getting your water tested for ammonia and nitrite to see if water quality is the issue. You state your nitrite reading is 100pm, do you mean nitrate? at 100ppm for nitrite i would expect your fish to be dead! The red edge to the gills might be burning of the gills due to ammonia or septacemia due to a bacterial infection. Keep changing your water, and take some water in to your fish store and ask if they can test it for you (some of the animates stores do this). I would suggest doing 50% daily water changes until you get a reading of zero ammonia and zero nitrite, but do not clean out the filter as you will be disrupting the good bacteria. Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Use the search bar at the top or google cycling fish tanks. Basically, what you've done is dump fish into a tank that has no bacteria in it. The bacteria is important as it helps break down ammonia (fish wastes) which is poisonous into nitrite. Nitrate is still toxic to fish. The bacteria then break down the nitrite into nitrate, which is much less toxic, and can be tolerated in slightly higher quantities. Ideally, you want to keep all of these levels as close as you can to zero. A nitrite reading of 100ppm is really high. I'm honestly surprised the fish survived. I consider mine way too high if they get to 20ppm. So, to get this good bacteria into your tank, you need to add a filter and water. The bacteria will already be in the water. Now, they need something to feed on. We know they break down ammonia, so they need a source of ammonia to begin the cycle and start to multiply. You can either cycle a tank without fish or with fish (search fishless cycling, or cycling). Once the levels of all 3 chemicals are under control (all stable and as close as they can be to 0), then you're ok to begin to add fish slowly. Obviously, you've skipped this step, so now you need a plan to begin to bring the levels under control. First, water changes are good. They will take out the excess nitrites and ammonia. You should be doing a minimum of 30% every day until the levels are stable. Second, you need to stop cleaning the filter wool. This is where the bacteria live, so every time you clean it, you're killing off heaps of the bacteria, basically starting the cycle from the beginning. You should only need to clean the filter when the flow starts to reduce, and even then, in a tank with no gravel (bacteria can live happily in the gravel too), you should take bits of the filter out at a time to clean, leaving time in between each to allow the bacteria to repopulate. So, keep up the water changes, and leave the filter alone for a bit. It's good to see you've reduced feeding, believe me, it's pretty hard to stave a fish, so less feeding for now = less pollutants in the water. Also, I think you've got quite a few goldfish in the tank. They're pretty messy eaters, and create lots of waste. I'm sure that other people with more experience with goldfish will be able to help out here. I hope that helps, let us know how you get on with the water changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Hi Piggyvir, if you added all the fish at once to the tank then and then you're probaby still having water quality issues due to it cycling. If you replaced all the gravel then you've probably removed a lot of the 'good' bacteria which live on the gravel and help with processing the fish waste. Try getting your water tested for ammonia and nitrite to see if water quality is the issue. You state your nitrite reading is 100pm, do you mean nitrate? at 100ppm for nitrite i would expect your fish to be dead! The red edge to the gills might be burning of the gills due to ammonia or septacemia due to a bacterial infection. Keep changing your water, and take some water in to your fish store and ask if they can test it for you (some of the animates stores do this). I would suggest doing 50% daily water changes until you get a reading of zero ammonia and zero nitrite, but do not clean out the filter as you will be disrupting the good bacteria. Hope that helps Oh snap, you got me while I was writing the post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 lol great minds think alike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Also when you do clean the filter wool, make sure you only rinse it in aquarium water and NOT tap water. i would also put a little salt in the tank - whenever my fantails are looking alittle down I chuck some rock salt in. My tank is 250 litres and I usually put 2 good handfuls in. And I would keep up with daily water changes till your tank sorts itself out .. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 also your fish are probably stressed from all the medications (do you have any carbon in your filter, as this will neutralize all medications and needs to be taken out before treating). I would lay of the meds for a bit and just try the water changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piggyvir Posted December 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Thanks everyone - a few pic of my tank and my fishy problem. Just one more question - when I change the water, I just take it straight from the tap, would that be a problem as well? Burnt split tail white dots/holes Funny scale near the top - it seems like it's eroding (i am not too sure whether this is the best word to describe it) My tank - I know I have 1x perlscale, 2x Oranda, 1x black moor, 1x fantail and the rest are unknown.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 another thing to try when you are having fish problems that may be related to cycling the tank is to only feed them half as much so the toxins dont build up so fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piggyvir Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 actually - any chance they will eat one another? I had this horrible experience a few years back - i have two awesome, beautiful veiltails with 1 oranda, 1 black moor and 1 perlscale. I went on a trip and my neighbour only feed them once a day and missed a day on feeding The next day she went there - my beautiful awesome veiltail has nothing left but the bones....the second veiltail died a few months after that since then, I just couldn't buy another veiltail from the shop !!! That's one of the reason why I do feed my fish quite a bit :( . I am not scared of them being starved, but I don't want them to each one another... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 I suspect your fish probably died of another cause before being eaten. And I'm very surprised it could have been eaten so fast! You are definitely better to under-feed rather thatn over-feed, especially when you have diseases breaking out in your tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Size of the tank - 210L (Aqua One AR 980, no gravels) Stocking Levels - 10 gold fish (3 orandas and some fan tails) + 1 bottom sucker Filtration - standard internal filter, with the Eheim biological media (I have got the brown round balls and the ceramic rgins) What did I do to cycle the tank? I am not too sure.. i just let it run to be honest The first thing I let it run without fish for 4 hours before I put the fish in.... I bought this tank off trademe and I made a serious a mistake of replacing all the gravels overnight and not cleaning the gravels thoroughly. I bought a 40l pack from Hollywood fishfarm and the gravels are very very dirty Daily operation - I change the water every week, or twice a week depends on the nitrite readings (at one stage, i reached 100 ppm for a while and I just keep on changing water). I clean up the filter wool twice a week these days (used to be once a week, until I hit that 100 ppm nitrite problem). I add stress zyme and accu clear everything I change the water. What's the best test kit to test the water actually? does the testing paper work? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =190988739 Latest discovery - two of my fish got this red mark sore on the edge of the side fin (the one next to the gill) and he seems struggling to swim. Other than the fin problems, my fish eat well, swim well (i.e. not really stay near the filter, on top or at the bottom all the time) and they are very active.... Please help >.< This definitely sounds like a cycling problem. When you say you change the water and clean the filter, how much of the water are you changing and how clean are you making the filter? I suspect you might be over-cleaning the tank, meaning you are never letting it cycle properly. Sounds like your fish are suffering from ammonia and/or nitrite in the water (both should be 0 in a fully cycled tank). Keep doing water changes (maybe 30 - 50% each day if you have any nitrite or ammonia in the water). When using tap water to top up the tank, make sure you remove the chlorine from it first. And don't clean the filter at all for a while. Do ammonia and nitrite readings every day and let us know what the readings are. I didn't quite understand the part about the dirty gravel. You have no gravel in your tank - is that because the gravel you got was dirty? Or are you intentionally keeping the tank without gravel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piggyvir Posted December 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 reading of the day ph = 6.5 No3 = 12.5 mg/l How to de-chorline before putting the water into the tank? If I change 50% of the water, that's about 100 L.... should I prepare 10 buckets?? I normally just hose it into the tank directly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 ... I add stress zyme and accu clear everything I change the water. ... I don't think either of those products remove chlorine (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Do you have Stress Coat? It will remove chlorine and add a protective slime coat to your fish which might help with some of their skin problems. You can still hose the water straight in, but just add the recommended amount of chlorine-removing product to the tank. So if you're changing 100 litres of water, follow the instructions on the bottle for treating 100 litres. Some people say they don't bother removing chlorine, but I would suggest that your fish are already weakened from whatever is causing all these problems so it's important to maximise their skin health and gill function. Chlorine in the water can cause problems with both of these. That's why I think it's important to add chlorine-remover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink_fish Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Hi, Beautiful fish you have there! I agree with others that have said that you have a cycling issue – follow their advice & things should start to improve. Also, looking at the pic of your tank, I would suggest that you have too many fish in there – goldfish need a lot more surface area per fish than tropical fish do. If possible, halve your fish population _permanently_ – and when cycling, it is usually recommended to have even less fish ('cos there won't be enough bacteria to consume their waste). Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piggyvir Posted January 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Update - i successfully sold two of my biggest fish for 20 bucks on trademe and add the gravels with a proper undergravel filter. The set up has been running for a week and the water condition has been great so far. my filter wool start developing some houseflies after a month without changing it.. is it normal???!!! That really freaks me out ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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