eben Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Well not spike as such, but it's detectable, basically my Ammonia levels do not appear to be 0. This tank is well established and I've not had any problems with any fish in quite some time - mostly it's just due to fighting but even that is under control now. my Nitrite and Nitrate levels are 0. I've done a major clean yesterday and tested the Ammonia again after it and it's still 0.25 ppm. I added 9 fish to the tank about 2 months ago but the tank has been up and running for around 2 years now (I'd expect to see the other levels rise too if this was causing it). Does anybody have any ideas as to what might be causing this? I do water changes every 2 months or so (540 L tank with 24 fish in it, 3 frontosa some smaller africans and 7 catfish). It gets water top ups as required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 You will always have a small amount of Ammonia present, but 0.25 sounds a little to much. Have you checked tap water with the same test kit? May be a kit problem or Ammonia in the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eben Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 You will always have a small amount of Ammonia present, but 0.25 sounds a little to much. Have you checked tap water with the same test kit? May be a kit problem or Ammonia in the water. That is the next level up from 0... if it was any less I wouldn't know that it's there.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Whats your filtering? If the filters are a little small for the fish load that will result in a trace of ammonia left in the water, even if they are fully cycled. If there's not enough water flow through enough media then there will allways be a trace in the water. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eben Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Whats your filtering? If the filters are a little small for the fish load that will result in a trace of ammonia left in the water, even if they are fully cycled. If there's not enough water flow through enough media then there will allways be a trace in the water. Ian it's the standard filter on the 6 foot aqua one, but I think you're onto something with the water flow as I had to clean the filter since it almost overflowed.... then again shouldn't it clear up once the filter is clean, since the bacteria in the filter and substrate should be able to break it down? or does that take a little longer than I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 mmmm those filters are usually quite good, high output, the problem is you are relying on the water to cascade towards the left or right, so it doesnt force the water to go through the media. But should be ok if its an established tank, the only think i can think of is under fitration and increase in bio load. Check for dead fish somewhere? lol sounds strange but in a community tank, a couple of neons can easily die and get traped in the driftwood which CAN affect it. if not, then perhaps add more bio media? or just go all out and get an FX5:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianab Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 it's the standard filter on the 6 foot aqua one, but I think you're onto something with the water flow as I had to clean the filter since it almost overflowed.... then again shouldn't it clear up once the filter is clean, since the bacteria in the filter and substrate should be able to break it down? or does that take a little longer than I think? I'm not familiar with the filter, but the standard filters on most large tanks are OK, but only OK. It may just be struggling to process the amount of waste your large fish produce. The cycle is obviously working or the ammonia would just keep increasing. I would be looking for a 2nd filter of some sort, doesn't need to be huge as it's only an auxillary / backup one. Some more water flow around the tank also improves the bio-filtration from the gravel etc. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 OK is the only way to explain those filtration setups As your fish are getting bigger the filter isnt able to cope with the load anymore Why do you change the water every 2 months? You are going to need more filtration I would suggest adding a canister filter as then you will be perfectly fine You shouldnt ever let that filter over flow Once the water travels over the filter media and not through its hardly working anymore Regular maintenance on this will keep your tank alot cleaner Are you sure Nitrate is 0? Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eben Posted November 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 OK is the only way to explain those filtration setups As your fish are getting bigger the filter isnt able to cope with the load anymore Why do you change the water every 2 months? You are going to need more filtration I would suggest adding a canister filter as then you will be perfectly fine You shouldnt ever let that filter over flow Once the water travels over the filter media and not through its hardly working anymore Regular maintenance on this will keep your tank alot cleaner Are you sure Nitrate is 0? Brad I've had up to 45 Malawis in the tank at one point and the filter coped just fine with them... When I clean the tank more often things go wrong in the tank, so the less I do the better my fish do, they are actually breeding... The tank is actually pretty clean regardless my bristle noses keeps it clean.... Everybody is saying more filtration, this is not really an option I'd like to go with as I'm considering selling this tank off in about 6 - 8 months to down grade or upgrade to a red sea max 250... I don't actually have any problems with the tank, my fish are very healthy (like I said they are breeding). My plan is to just keep an eye on the ammonia over the next week (daily). If it does not decrease I'll have to do something about it then, all Nitrate and Nitrite levels 0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 The number of fish actually depends on size whether your filter is going to cope If ur getting an Ammonia spike then something has to be done to fix it Now your options are really less fish or more filtration unless you had a dead fish in there or dumped alot of food Nitrates are the end of the Cycle and will go up non stop unless you have a Nitrate removing filter so ts very hard to believe they are 0 Tap water generally has Nitrates If your fish have problems after you do your water changes then your doing something wrong Plus as your tank is a closed system and nothing comes out till you change the water then everything is building up Hence why U need to change your water Plus the nutrients and minerals from the water are depleted by the fish and fresh water will help them out Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted November 6, 2008 Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 When I clean the tank more often things go wrong in the tank, so the less I do the better my fish do, they are actually breeding... The tank is actually pretty clean regardless my bristle noses keeps it clean.... With a highly stocked tank with large fish and an 'ok' filter, in my opinion you need to do water changes much more often. just to be clear: I am not suggesting cleaning the tank more often, simply syphoning some of the water out and replacing it with fresh, dechlorinated water. Generally things tend to go wrong from over-cleaning - for example if you clean out the filter, scrub the décor and do a major water change all at once. If you just change some of the water, you will be absolutely fine. It is impossible to tell just from looking at the tank whether it is 'clean'. You said your bristlenoses keep it clean - by that I assume you mean they eat the algae off the glass etc. That's great (they really do a very good job) but all they do is make the glass look clean, they do not clean the water. One way to tell if your water is clean is to do some tests. You have done an ammonia test and the bad news is your water is not as 'clean' as it looks! I believe a nice regular water change is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eben Posted November 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2008 With a highly stocked tank with large fish and an 'ok' filter, in my opinion you need to do water changes much more often. just to be clear: I am not suggesting cleaning the tank more often, simply syphoning some of the water out and replacing it with fresh, dechlorinated water. Generally things tend to go wrong from over-cleaning - for example if you clean out the filter, scrub the décor and do a major water change all at once. If you just change some of the water, you will be absolutely fine. It is impossible to tell just from looking at the tank whether it is 'clean'. You said your bristlenoses keep it clean - by that I assume you mean they eat the algae off the glass etc. That's great (they really do a very good job) but all they do is make the glass look clean, they do not clean the water. One way to tell if your water is clean is to do some tests. You have done an ammonia test and the bad news is your water is not as 'clean' as it looks! I believe a nice regular water change is the answer. I did another test last night and today, all levels are zero again, I think it stems from the fact that I may have rinsed one of the sponge filters in tap water by accident. I top the tank up when the water evaporates but I'm not sure thats enough water to constitute a "water change". I've been doing a lot of research into Marine filtration systems and I'm wondering if the amount of substrate in my tank may cause a deep sand bed effect (can anyone confirm or deny this?)... thus converting the nitrate into nitrogen gas... I'll be sure to do an ammonia test before I do any filter or tank cleaning next time to further this investigation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted November 7, 2008 Report Share Posted November 7, 2008 Your gravel would have to be deep and undisturbed totally for this happen Its harder to achieve in Fresh then Salt Also topping up water isnt a Water Change Change means exactly that Change the water When you remove water you also remove any toxins When water evaporates its exactly that Water nothing else Your just filling it back up and keeping the Toxins How old is your test kit? If you washed your sponges in Fresh water it can help the Ammonia spike In the end of this Regular water changes ill lessen the change on your fish and keep them alot happier Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eben Posted November 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 Just a quick update... Tested all levels again and they are definitely all 0. Another things I've noticed when I do clean the substrate is the release of a large amount of "air" bubbles. I used to think this was air trapped from the air stones in the tank, but I've removed those more than 8 months ago... (since it's not good for the Frontosa in the tank). Could anybody explain what these are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 If you have readings of ammonia, more water changes would be in order then if this doesn't resolve the issue you'd have to see what else could be causing it. Sorry, not familiar with your filter so cannot comment on that! Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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