lduncan Posted August 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 To put it bluntly this thread was never intended to be about zeovit. So lets drop the zeovit topic all together an look at the topic at hand. Amino acids. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Here is a two year old thread from reefcentral: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115863 Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 holy shit, so it wasn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Layton - I agree about the Eco Aqualiser, but it is interesting that some people have success with it. Personally I think its a scam, but who knows. Zeovit is our friend. How about more info (in english) about these amino acids. And are they related to carbohydrates which are supposed to be very good for corals. Does adding the amino acids increase the smound of greasey crapola you get from the skimmer? Does the skimmer remove it all quickly? Or do you turn off the skimmer when you dose it? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 I have been talking to the guys in Germany, they have told me an english information sheet on zeovit is been prepared at the moment. As soon as i receive it i will post on this website and hopefully it will clear up some issues. Hope this helps. Regards Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Here is a bit more about amino acids in general. They are the building block molecules to proteins. Proteins are a polymer of amino acids (linked via a peptide bond). They are chiral comounds, which means that the have two possible three dimensional structures. L- aminos are the biologically useful ones, D- not so useful. This is why you may see suppliments labled as L-Tyrosine, or similar. Some can be synthisised by animals. Corals can not synthisise aspartic acid. Aspartic acid, it is a small hydrophillic molecule (having two carboxyl groups and an amine group) this means it is difficult for a skimmer to pull it out of the water. Skimmmers rely on large hydrophobic molecule to be attracted to the surface of the bubble, and remove it. So aspartic acid in not an easy to skim molecule. Carbohydrates are just sugars. Glucose, Fructose, Maltose etc, are all carbohydrates, and are not related to amino acids chemically. The effects of dosing it are increased skimmate production, clearer water, and increased polyp extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 hows it lookin this week Layton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted August 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 no really major changes. The water is still crystal clear. Skimmer isn't producing as much as before. One seriatopora is sprouting lots of little white growth tips, this is a definate change. One acro I have had for over a year appear to be turning from brown to purple (still early days though) Nitrates are still around 5 and don't appear to be dropping yet. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Just ready Randy's column on reefkeeping.com, and came across this: Another example is aspartic acid (a natural amino acid). It is readily taken up by certain corals, which rapidly incorporate it into proteins that may play an important role in calcification.12 The relationship between certain amino acids and calcification in corals was briefly mentioned in a previous article on the mechanism of calcification and will be discussed in detail in a future article. A brief explanation of how and why aspartic acid and certain other amino acids and organic materials may be involved in calcification is included below. Organic molecules are known to play a substantial role in the formation of calcium carbonate in many organisms, including abalone shells13 and other mollusk shells.14 These materials can be proteins, glycoproteins, mucopolysaccharides, and phospholipids (and likely others that have not yet been identified). They help to induce the nucleation and growth of aragonite and are often referred to as the "organic matrix" because much of the corals' skeleton is composed of these organic materials. In the case of corals, relatively little information is available about what, exactly, these organic materials are doing. The structures of some of these proteins contain an unusually large amount of aspartic acid residue. These amino acids are capable of binding to calcium, but whether that is a critical function or not has not been established. Here is some speculation about what these organics might be doing with respect to calcification: They may help control the concentration of free calcium in the coral, and thereby help control the rate of precipitation of calcium carbonate. They may control the location of crystal growth by binding free calcium and ferrying it to the location where the coral wants precipitation to take place. They may bind to the aragonite crystal face and thereby control the rate of precipitation. They may bind to the aragonite crystal face and thereby prevent precipitation in places where the coral does not want the skeleton to grow. They may bind to the aragonite crystal face and thereby inhibit binding of magnesium, phosphate, or other ions that are known to inhibit the growth of calcium carbonate crystals. Regardless of the mechanisms involved, the need for these organics in calcification is easily verified. Allemand, et al15 have studied the role of such materials in Stylophora pistillata. Interestingly, they find that inhibitors of protein synthesis reduce the rate of calcification considerably. For example, reducing protein synthesis by 60-85% reduced calcification by 50%. Inhibiting glycoprotein synthesis yielded a similar result. These results did not arise from reduced metabolism, but rather were the effects of specifically reducing only protein and glycoprotein synthesis. The most important conclusion in their paper may be that the rate of skeletogenesis may be limited more by the rate of biosynthesis and exocytosis of organic matrix proteins than by calcium deposition. Interestingly, the apparently large need for a particular amino acid (aspartic acid) to synthesize these proteins is satisfied by external sources, rather than by either the coral itself or its zooxanthellae. For this reason, some aquarists add aspartic acid, or commercial preparations containing it, to their aquaria. Whether there is a clear benefit to that addition remains to be established. I've stopped adding aspartic acid (because the bottle ran out, and I hadn't had time to get another one). But I'll definately start adding it again. I think it did have an effect on growth definately, and maybe colouration, too sort a time to tell though really. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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