smidey Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 what's the story with dragon blood peacocks? Are these hybrids of other peacocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Yes, a man made hybrid fish, mine breed true I have a few culls each batch but still get fish that come out like the parents.. Most probably something along these lines but who can be sure with hybrids? http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/720/product.web Fish that look the same are also called strawberry peacocks and all sorts of other numbers internationally.. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/720/product.web Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 Yes, a man made hybrid fish, mine breed true I have a few culls each batch but still get fish that come out like the parents.. Most probably something along these lines but who can be sure with hybrids? http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/720/product.web Fish that look the same are also called strawberry peacocks and all sorts of other numbers internationally.. http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/group/720/product.web i'm very surprised you have & breed dragon bloods ryan. You seem to me to be very outspoken about fry from fish that breed in community tanks should not be sold etc as they "may be" hybrids or cannot be sure they are not & yet you have & breed these fish that are confirmed hybrids. Just my observation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 lol good observation yes I do dislike hybrid fish.. However I do keep and breed OB peacocks and dragonsbloods, everyone who has brought them off me know's they're hybrids and knows what to expect because I put that in the auction or description and never give them a scientiffic name. I also know they breed true (ie throw the same off spring).. These are hybrids but have been line bred and became somewhat acceptable in the hobby the fact they're the only 2 "pure" hybirds to have a profile on cichlid forum shows that. I know of at least 3-4 of the more experienced keepers/breeders in nz who also have a strong and vocal dislike of hybrids who have or do keep/breed both dragons bloods and ob's for the same reason's. The hybrids I dislike are the ones where someone has a heap of peacocks/mbuna all breeding in one tank and then gets some random fry makes up a name.. Or someone who buys a random peacock male and then a random female and makes up a name. Who knows what the fry are, or what they will become. The main problem with them is you don't know what your going to get, some of the fry may resemble one species some another but future generations will be different.. If there are more hybrids created we are potentially diluting the pure fish stocks we do have as they are crossed back and forwards. If the lakes or even nz's borders are closed we might end up stuck for descent stock. To me dragons bloods or ob's (if they aren't crossed with other species) don't run the potential of being mistaken for anything else, so I am happy to breed them and pass them around and also happy to inform people they are line bred hybrids. Nice dig though I knew that someone would have it.. The hybrid/non hybrid argument can and will go on as long as we are keeping fish, and there will always be people for and against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 There's a big difference between selected hybrids that were created for a reason and are an 'improvement' on nature (like the dragon bloods, flowerhorns etc) and just random/unplanned hybridisation by careless or clueless fishkeepers. I don't have a problem with hybrids being created intentionally and sold as hybrids, but random crosses that just dilute pure species and create confusion with names are a problem and should be avoided. IMO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firenzenz Posted September 4, 2008 Report Share Posted September 4, 2008 What is the problem is that everyone wants to give this 'morph' other names. Gold, strawberry, dragons blood, tangerine, and a 'something' prime. All names attributed to them. I would call them a 'morph' more than Hybrid as there would appear to be enough line breeding gone on to ensure the stock now are breeding relatively true. I would happily look at a colourful tank of 'hybridised' fish until someone decided to give one of them a name based on a whim or a wish. Thats why we dislike hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Nice dig though I knew that someone would have it.. The hybrid/non hybrid argument can and will go on as long as we are keeping fish, and there will always be people for and against it. You have got a foot in both camps though? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbiesteph Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Your confused smidey.. It's not about Ryan having his foot in both camps it's a completely different situation.. Dragon's bloods are line bread hybrids not just 2 fish say a yellow and a peacock x breeding.. It is a completely accepted strain hybrid or not. :roll: :roll: :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Your confused smidey.. It's not about Ryan having his foot in both camps it's a completely different situation.. Dragon's bloods are line bread hybrids not just 2 fish say a yellow and a peacock x breeding.. It is a completely accepted strain hybrid or not. :roll: :roll: :roll: not confused at all, i now know what dragon bloods are. If you have read as many posts as i have from ryan saying how bad hybrids are you would question this when that same person breeds hybrids deliberately. All i have done is ask a question looking for an answer so i can more understand. I have dragon bloods & am not worried about hybrids, if i ended up with hybrid fry i would get rid of them but thats my stance on it. Does it make hybrids acceptable if you line breed a few generations & give them a different name? Maybe dragon bloods should be referred to as designer fish rather than hybrids. For me its about simulating the lakes of africa with its natural inhabitants & thats how i'll continue & may keep a few "designer fish" for asthetic purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 You have got a foot in both camps though? :-? I think you are a bit confused, didn't I explain in my first post after your dig that I only keep and breed these guys because they breed true and are passed with no sc. name etc associated with them? There are plenty of people who do and will keep breeding hybrids giving them incorrect names and selling them these are the people that I have a problem with. To some degree I wouldn't care if people came straight out and were honest about what they were selling. Obviously this is less than ideal because the hybrid fish are out there and others will try and rename them and pass them on, but at least its honest and people know what they're getting. David R and firenzenz both feel the same way, they are hybrids (maybe morph's would be a better way to describe them) they have names and they are passed with those names and also people know what they are. I always tell people they're a line bred hybrid fish and don't occur naturally in the lake. To me there is no problem with them. If you don't understand from the above posts the point im trying to make there really is no point in me flogging a dead horse trying to explain it to you.. Your entitled to your opinion and if you don't like dragons bloods or ob's or any of the designer fish all well and good to you, I breed them because I like them and think they're something different.. To me it seems your trying to start something and I know who your friends with and where its starting but it is pretty petty even for that person.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I think you are a bit confused, didn't I explain in my first post after your dig that I only keep and breed these guys because they breed true and are passed with no sc. name etc associated with them? There are plenty of people who do and will keep breeding hybrids giving them incorrect names and selling them these are the people that I have a problem with. To some degree I wouldn't care if people came straight out and were honest about what they were selling. Obviously this is less than ideal because the hybrid fish are out there and others will try and rename them and pass them on, but at least its honest and people know what they're getting. David R and firenzenz both feel the same way, they are hybrids (maybe morph's would be a better way to describe them) they have names and they are passed with those names and also people know what they are. I always tell people they're a line bred hybrid fish and don't occur naturally in the lake. To me there is no problem with them. If you don't understand from the above posts the point im trying to make there really is no point in me flogging a dead horse trying to explain it to you.. Your entitled to your opinion and if you don't like dragons bloods or ob's or any of the designer fish all well and good to you, I breed them because I like them and think they're something different.. it was not "a dig", i was confused as you commonly state the "risks of hybridisation" of africans breeding in community tanks. then you state you breed dragon bloods which are hybrids, excepted or not they are still hybrids. you explained your view on the differences between dragon bloods & other hybrids. as you stated before, these discussions can go on forever. just keep in mind, because you think one thing, that may not be what others think & most of the information in this hobby is purely someones opinion which can vary greatly from one to another. To me it seems your trying to start something and I know who your friends with and where its starting but it is pretty petty even for that person.. what????? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: who & what are you talking about & what conspiracy theory am i missing? I'm not trying to "start" anything, you would know clearly if that was the case. I was merely dicussing the topic as it evolved. Have you had this discussion with others before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbiesteph Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I have most definitely read as many posts as you have on Ryan's view's of hybrids..I'm his wife..I know exactly how he feels.. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted September 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 I have most definitely read as many posts as you have on Ryan's view's of hybrids..I'm his wife..I know exactly how he feels.. :lol: i know who you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 Its hard to be against Hybrids and then for these guys But either way its your fish and your tanks easy as that Though why are referring to OB as Hybrids They occur naturally in the lake in a few different species I asked Ad Konings about this as well and he has observed them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firenzenz Posted September 10, 2008 Report Share Posted September 10, 2008 So Ad Konings confirmed that hybridisation occurs naturally. Obviously it is a lot more prevailent in the confines of Aquaria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakyfish Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 Can you prove they are a Hybrid? Or they can be recessive gene like Albino's There are a few few that wont cross in the wild yet do it easily in the confines of an Aquarium I dont believe OB are hybrids Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropheus Posted September 15, 2008 Report Share Posted September 15, 2008 I guess we can only go on what infomation we have re Aul.OBs. All info ive read refer them as hybrids. Brad have you found anything that differs? http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/s ... hp?id=1372 Ive bred my OBs now for acouple of years and the juv Males are never the same as the original male. I get all sort of colour variations. In the wild they must cross breed at some point you would think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Of course hybridisation occurs in the lake. Rare as but, species are usually separated by bodies of water etc. But with cases like in Lake Victoria with pollution. Males & females are having trouble seeing who is who properly & cross breeding. I know how they feel, numerous Saturday nights out, I have trouble telling is she a natural blonde.... :roll: Smidey, There's a big difference between selected hybrids that were created for a reason and are an 'improvement' on nature (like the dragon bloods, flowerhorns etc) and just random/unplanned hybridisation by careless or clueless fishkeepers. There is a difference in what you said at the start, this quote explains it well. I get where you are coming from & what you mean but. Tropheus, that particular fish you linked is a purpose bred hybrid. OB do occur in the wild, rare, just like albino's. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.