wasp Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 In a zeovit tank the options to control night time PH are quite limited. Even a reverse photo period fuge cannot generally be done because macro algae will not grow much / at all in the low nutrient water. About all that can be done is good aeration, normally via a good skimmer. I did ponder all this PH stuff before going zeovit, and it did seem like a weak link in the system. However, end of the day, it's about results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 iron phosphate remover what is the debate about iron based phosphate removers - and why are they so bad? is it about leaching iron into the water? if thats the case, just get yourself a heliopora (blue coral) as they can extract iron from the water, oxidise it to a blue salt which is deposited into the skeleton a potential theory?! :-? regarding zeovit and TN, from what ive read TN can happen anywhere from 'extremely quickly' (within a couple of hours) to 'slowly' (over several weeks) it can also happen for a number of factors. i always decided Im going to 'half dose' zeovit (from the recommended amount) and let the system take care of itself, monitoring it as i go of course. however its one thing to learn from reading web sites and hearing others opinions, but IMO best to learn first hand based on your own system, even though it can end up costly! on the contrary, i've read about zeovit tanks with higher alk (similar or even higher than mine) and they seem to be doing fine, so i dont fully read into the equation that 'zeovit + high alk = TN'. but nonetheless i do value the input, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Better not open that can of worms!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 what is the debate about iron based phosphate removers - and why are they so bad? is it about leaching iron into the water? if thats the case, just get yourself a heliopora (blue coral) as they can extract iron from the water, oxidise it to a blue salt which is deposited into the skeleton a potential theory?! :-? The problem was adding too much iron too quickly. (Increasing nutrients too quickly) It appears most corals can adapt to higher levels of iron no problem (to a point), but if dissolved iron levels are increased too quickly, problems can occur as it tries to release and bind with phosphate from rock and skeletons. The problem was solved by using less remover and ramping it up over time. And as an added safety net, running carbon after the remover. Iron is not bad, but too much of it can be. Natural sea level are very low, in some ocean environments it is THE limiting nutrient. Marine animals have developed sophisticated methods of sequestering iron, seen as though it is often in short supply, especially bacteria... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Randy Holmes Farley would disagree. On his Chemistry forum on Reef Central he said that iron based phosphate removing media would in fact deplete iron from the water. While it may seem common sense to assume that using iron media would add iron at a molecular level to the water, in fact that view is too simplistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Chimera have you read the zeovit guide? Following the rules is important. The people who are going around whinging that zeovit killed all their corals, are people who did not follow the rules. I would HATE for you to become one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Randy Holmes Farley would disagree. On his Chemistry forum on Reef Central he said that iron based phosphate removing media would in fact deplete iron from the water. While it may seem common sense to assume that using iron media would add iron at a molecular level to the water, in fact that view is too simplistic. That would be correct... if our tanks were completely sterile. The media does not have to enter the water through chemical disassociation. Bacteria are involved. It's not a chemical thing, it's biological. If it's not iron, how do you explain the TN people experienced? The ONLY thing they did is add iron oxide to their tank. Oh, and Layton I knew - You'd be back!! :lol: Chimera asked a question, it's his thread. Also I never lost any corals using zeovit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Also I never lost any corals using zeovit. Layton i didn't know that you used Zeovit? that something new! when? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 There are a lot of things you don't know about me Cookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 There are a lot of things you don't know about me Cookie maybe you should enlighten us with your personal experience regarding Zeovit on a new tread (don't want to hijack Chimera's). this would make on doubt a good tread! and could answer some questions as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Cookie, only proceed with this if you have a strong desire to find out the feeling of repeatedly banging your head on concrete! Trust me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 so anyway. how do you find using the zeo system chimera?? labour intensive stressfull easy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Cookie, only proceed with this if you have a strong desire to find out the feeling of repeatedly banging your head on concrete! i guess you are correct. can't effort to do that as i haven't got that much hair left anyway. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 Chimera have you read the zeovit guide? :roll: Hell yes, about 6 months ago, then again just prior to going with Zeovit, then twice again in the last week! Not to mention reading other articles on the web and some posts on Zeovit forums. how do you find using the zeo system chimera?? labour intensive stressfull easy? Easy as. The pump is on a timer on/off every 3 hours, so no work there. The media is shaken up each morning before I go to work, if I forget it's not a major. Dosing is (currently) 10 drops of Zeobac and 10 drops of Zeofood every 2nd night. Have to keep the bac in the fridge - not a major as kitchen is upstairs near the main tank anyway. Just dose this into the main tank near the overflow. Likewise with the food, keep in a drawer right next to tank. Dosing changes to twice a week shortly. I am definately noticing changes now (yes, even after 1 day from when I said I didnt notice much) Colouration is extended from the tips further down the coral (some of them more than others) Only a few mm in most cases but noticeable. The water clarity is still very good. I was still running Rowaphos but removed it last night. I decided to leave it for a couple more days after starting Zeovit to try and further reduce any phosphates in the system (as Zeovit stops ammonia at the beginning of the nitrogen cycle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 yeah i think ill probably give it a try, but i have a while to decide and see your results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 According to Bomber on RC, zeolites are inert in SW and can't absorb ammonia :-? but then again I hear Bomber is just anti-zeovit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 You mean boomer, not bomber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 oops, better get the right name before I give the wrong dude sh!t. the one that hangs out in the reef chemistry forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 yeah sorry, boomer. interesting topic, funny that randy holmes-farley doesnt want to pass comment as he doesn't know what's in it :lol: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=633313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 According to Bomber on RC, zeolites are inert in SW and can't absorb ammonia :-? I'm pretty sure most of the chemistry type guys are agreed on that, doesn't look like the zeolites will absorb any significant amount of ammonia in salt water. I think Randys reluctance to comment is more to do with the zeovit system as a whole, the mechanisms of zeolites alone is fairly well understood. Boomer = chemistry guy Bomber = biology / anti DSB guy. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 bomber - biology / anti DSB for sps tanks guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Actually I should say that Bomber is very anti to Zeovit also, he has put a lot of energy into trying to prove it does not work in the way stated. However he is a very knowledgeable guy from whom I have learned a lot. It is Bomber who has given Layton this "it adds one nutrient" thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 bomber - biology / anti DSB for sps tanks guy www.nzreefs.com Is that your web site Layton? If so, my congrats, looking good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 6, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 wow, all i need to do is quote a random element from the periodic table and you can be sure wasp and lduncan will have a debate over it :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 6, 2005 Report Share Posted September 6, 2005 Hmm... Well Layton and I have had a few debates / punch ups, but I did think our last few posts were fairly normal, factual, hey even congratulatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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