jolliolli Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Hey guys, Just wondering if anyone has dealt with black ich in their tang before. My new small blue tang seems to have around half a dozen small black dots resembling the pics i have seen for black ich. I understand black ich is a parasitic turbellarian that lives in the sand and attaches to the host, and from what i've read the best course of treatment seems to be freshwater dips. The blue tang has only been in the tank a couple of weeks but doesn't appear at all affected by it, he's happy, eating like a pig and swimming as normal, my yellow tang exhibits no symptoms. My thoughts were to maybe try feeding garlic soaked nori to up the tangs resistance, i wondered if anyone had had any luck with this before. Should i just leave him be and see how he does or should i be freshwater dipping him now (which im nervous about as i've never done it before and don't want to stress him out) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 They are little flatworm type things that mostly live on tangs. A few years ago there was a bout of them up here in Auckland a few of us including me had them in our tanks. They don't seem to bother the fish much but will continue to increase if not dealt with & eventually cause harm. Treatment, FW dip the fish the parasites drop straight off. According to the literature they will recur on the fish from the larval stage in the tank, but for me, and others I know of, this did not happen. FW dipping is a scary thought for those who have not done it before but is actually quite easy. Over the years I've done it quite a few times. According to books you have to get pH correct but I have never bothered with that, just get the temperature right & drop the fish in. I just use tap water, chlorine and all doesn't seem to matter. Some fish will go into a kind of "shock" and drop motionless upside down or similar, what I do is give them a gentle nudge just to get them right way up, and breathing etc. They have to be watched full time as they can suddenly go nuts & jump out of the bucket, just watch them & keep them right way up & happy as possible. Most marine fish can comfortably cope with 1/2 hour plus FW dip but for black spot 5 minutes is usually plenty. Once time is up just ensure all spots are off the fish & then dump straight back into the tank. Within a few minutes they will usually be acting like nothing happened. Catching the fish is the harder part, I highly recomend a fish trap. keep it in the tank a few days and feed only in the trap. Luckily tangs are suckers for traps and very quickly lose their fear of them. Obviously watch the fish closely for new infestation and re-dip if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmxmatt Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Are u sure they would be that tho Wasp? After my bout of Ich my Blue Tang had black spots all over it where the white spots used to be, pretty much like wounds. Didn't cause it any grief and they went away over a number of weeks without me needing to do anything (except fatten the wee piggy up with Nori) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Good point Matt. The test is if they move around on the fish. Note where they are then check again in a few hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 If it is a flatworm infestion, that Salifert product for planarians might be effective - I haven't used it myself, but when someone else used it it also seemed to affect bristleworms etc, so it may well do in pretty much all planarians as well as their close relatives. This stuff: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Unfortunately not. Reef also has dealt with these and may be able to provide more info than I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 thanks guys for all the helpful info, i've never seen 'white' ich in the flesh so its possible the little fella had ich in the previous owners tank and this is the result of the wounds. That would make sense as when i bought him he had no spots at all, and has slowly developed these small black wounds about pinhead size. All other tank inhabitants in my tank have no symptoms of either form of ich and so perhaps this is the aftermath of white ich. I will try and get some photos up tonight, (but hes pretty quick and im pretty slow with the camera) they do resemble small wounds and there are only half a dozen or so whereas the pics of black ich i have seen the fish has been fairly well covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 ok, well i've come home tonight and there are white dots so now its looking to be more likely to be white ich :evil: Heres the best picture i could get which shows white and black dots so i'm not sure if i should just leave him in there and see if he recovers or risk stressing him and take him out. Is there any advantage to taking him out as the ich is probably in the tank now anyway? Hes still very happy, eating well and i haven't seen any scratching yet but there are definitely ore spots tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 most likely white spot and the black spots is where the white spot was. If it is black ich then just leave it as it is not a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted February 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 and if its white ich, leave him there and just keep feeding him a lot or try and take him out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 the white does not look bad, so leave it. check water conditions. Feed garlic to help immune system. You can some garlic and crush it. some of my fish eat it, try mixing in with you dry foods. Blue tangs get white spot easy , but will go away if healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmxmatt Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Yep those black spots look just like what was on mine after the ich bout. Its not bad at the moment, so I reckon try the garlic soaked Nori and make sure ur not getting big temp swings or salinity changes. Unfortunatly its not something thats gunna go away overnight. You might notice it gets worse in the mornings aswel but not as bad at night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Just an update, he's still eating and acting as normal, i'm feeding him nori and NLS marine food soacked in the seachem garlic guard. Spots don't appear any worse and still no sign on any other fish in the tank, i'm going to try and wait it out and see how that goes. Will keep you all posted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Yes wait it out, try to keep temp at or below 25 which slows the WS lifecycle down. Do you have a UV this can help. A hippo tang may take several months to build enough immunity to keep WS to undetectable levels, in the mean time just keep him happy, like you are, and there will almost certainly be a good outcome. Fmxmatt has just been through a similar thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmxmatt Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 They're dirty little Ich Magnets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Well the white spots are worse today but its hard to know if i should be worried or not as i understand it they are the burst cysts so i should expect to see more as it progressed anyway. Apart from the white spots are there any other symptoms that i should look out for to say that the ich infestation is getting worse, ie not eating, hiding etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 If the fish was not immune when you got it to your whitespot, the fish will probably continue to worsen perhaps for some weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmxmatt Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Yeah its not something that just disappears. I battled for a month and a half I think. My tang did get to the hiding stage, but never didn't eat. Got a new pic just so we can gauge what stage its all at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 i'll try and post a pic tomorrow, my halides have just switched off and i hes so damn difficult to get a pic of, tried giving him some food to lure him out to the front of the tank but that just made him zoom around even more :evil: i read this on reefkeeping.com; Tetra previously made a medicated food, Anti-Protozoan Medicated Flakes, which was reported to be effective against Cryptocaryon. The active ingredient was Metronidazole, also known as Flagyl. This was a good option when it was impossible to remove the fish to a separate quarantine/hospital tank because this food was safe for use in the display tank. The only downside was whether the fish could be coaxed to eat it at all and whether they could eat enough of it. Although the Tetra Medicated Food is now discontinued, Metronidazole is available, so it is possible to obtain it and mix it into the fish's favorite food and, with luck, to elicit a feeding response. The medicated foods are a good option for use as a preventative, for mild infestations, or when used in conjunction with one of the other less effective treatments, such as biological controls, UV, ozone, and garlic. All of these methods could be employed together in a display tank when removal is not chosen, although this is not the most effective solution, in my experience. I have always had better luck going through the trouble of removing all the fish for separate treatment or better yet, quarantining all new livestock and avoiding infection in the first place. So has anyone ever tried metro as a cure before, i do have some that i could slip in to his food but not sure on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 Well for me anyway I've never used it, or even heard of it :oops: . If using just make sure it is invert safe, what the 1/2 life in water is, and stuff like that. Also the tang can get really badly covered with whitespots before it will kill him. Horrible as it is to watch, for the sake of the tank as a whole it is sometimes better to let him cure himself. However I highly recommend garlic, as it has no detrimental effect on any of your livestock. The bottled products sold in pet shops are not very effective, it has to be a fresh clove of garlic, crushed & chopped to bite size pieces & served immediately. The most powerful anti parasite chemicals in garlic break down within a few hours of the clove being crushed. I have an article (somewhere) on the anti parasitic properties of garlic, if you want to see it I will try to ferret it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted February 22, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 no i hadn't heard of metro being used before either and i'd really prefer not to dose anything i'm not sure of so i've just been using the garlic. I wasn't aware that it needed to be fresh garlic, i've just been using the seachem garlic guard. Is it true that i should avoid the chinese garlic as its not as potent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmxmatt Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 I found Garlic Guard helped mine a wee bit. I feed my tangs soaked nori once a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted February 22, 2008 Report Share Posted February 22, 2008 There were some (non fish related) complaints about imported Chinese garlic i heard a while back, because by the time we get it, it can be a year old and have lost much of it's beneficial properties. I found that garlic article, here it is, interesting read. http://www.reefs.org/library/article/h_ ... jorge.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted February 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 I've tried taking some photos but he's just too quick for me to get a clear picture. Tonights he's been scratching a LOT, and visiting the cleaner shrimp for a clean (which obliges when he feels like it). I bought some real garlic today which i've been mushing in to their food, but i can't help feeling guilty about sitting and trying to wait out the ich... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmxmatt Posted February 24, 2008 Report Share Posted February 24, 2008 Unfortunatly it takes quite a while. Keep doing what ur doing with the feeding. Basically what you have to do is get the tangs immunity up, so when the ich cycles again (or again 2 cycles down the track etc) it manages to fight off the parasite. Once you have the fish's immunity up, the Ich can't sustain itself and will die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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