using plants to remove nitrates and phosphates for a tank

[jimbob]

Hey guys.

I have a 4ft sparsely planted tank

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/jimbobs-community-and-brackish-tank-vt24598.html

since then the random big nana plants is gone (gradually smothered by algae til i removed it), and the val has receded quite a bit (bits chopped off due to algae coverage)

also i now have it filtered by 2 cf1200's.

i'm currently doing a 25 to 30% weekly water change.

feed approx 5 cubes of frozen food a day, and a bunch of flakes/pellets.

i have a few spare 2fts lying around.

just wondering if i plumbed in a 2ft (x1ftx1ft), and had it heavily planted with a twin 2ft t8 light i have spare, would it make a noticeable difference to the nitrates and phosphates of the main community tank?

or would it just be extra effort for an insignificant gain?

i have never bothered with test kits before - judge the quality of the tank by the way it looks - and the health of the fish.

the fish are happy, but there is a fair bit of hairy algae around. otherwise the tank remains quite clean.

any feedback / opinions would be appreciated

Cheers,

Ben.

[nemines]

firstly, wat sort of algae is it?

with the amount of food you're putting in i'd recommend 40-50% water changes a week. rinse your frozen food first and probably feed a little bit less.

IMO a planted sump would be a bit useless, the algae already has a head start in the main tank and any additional nutrients would simply encourage algal growth, as plants take a while to settle in and take root. your sump would therefore become covered in algae too.

so, IMO, feed less, change more water and also maybe try rowaphos or some sort of phosphate remover. i'd also buy a nitrate test kit just so you can figure out how often you need to change your water. nitrates should be as close to zero as you can manage.

further, wat media do your filters contain? if thhey contain fine filter wool, how often do you change it?

hope this was useful.

[jn]

This might sound a bit mad...I'm still very much a plant novice but here's my situation and I wonder if the same might apply to you.

I had some decent plant growth for a while... then it stopped suddenly, then the algae growth sped up quite a bit...I added small doses of ferts (ferropol) and the plants are now growing again and the algae has taken a back seat ....I was having fine hairy sort of green algae growing especially quickly on the glass

I tested nitrates and phosphates, neither was particularly high (10 and <.5 respectively) So if your plants aren't growing well.. then any available nutrients seem tol be taken up by algae (obviously algae has simpler ewquirements!)

What I'm saying is you don't necessarily have too many nutrients.. maybe your plants are just having trouble using them properly ?

Oh.. and anubias is very slow growing (dunno about val), but maybe you uneed some quicker growing stem plants who feed from the nutrients in the water to keep them in check.. like hygrophila or whatever suits your light conditions. I have ludwigia repens.. its growing at a pretty decent rate and doesn't get excessively straggly looking

[jimbob]

thanks for the detailed replies guys

nemines:

its black hairy algae - it grows a bit on the rocks and driftwood and plants - not on any of the glass though. i wouldnt call it an outbreak as when i do get around to cleaning it off it takes a while (at least a month) to return to a sizeable amount.

the back glass has a heap of the green algae that is hard to get off, little bits pop up on the front and side glass but a quick scrub every month or so keeps that looking good enough for me. i get a very small amount of the brown slimy algae that comes off very easily when you wipe whenever i miss a water change (which i obviously try not to do). sorry i dont know the proper names for them.

thanks for the tip re the water changes, i thought that a 25% weekly would be heaps. i have read about the rinsing food thing but have been really lazy with it.

will try to feed a little less, but bit hard with my fish. 25cm black ghost knife, 2 15-20cm ish bichirs and a little dat. might try weening the black ghost back onto pellets - the bichirs are happy with pellets.

I do have a phosphate remover that is supposed to be put inline i have been considering using, problem is its supposed to have a max flow of 1000 l/h with less being better, but my cannisters both output 1200 and have too big tubes...

re filter media both have a tray of jbl micromec with fine sponge filter, a tray of the aqua one ceramic rings with fine sponge filter, and the bottom tray has a course sponge and filter wool. once the current filter wool has been in there around 1 month i plan on chucking it out and just using another fine filter pad.

I will definitely buy a nitrate test kit sometime soon (will post when i do the test)

[jimbob]

jn:

sounds familiar - i used to have the tank much heavier planted, but didnt have too much luck, so removed most of the plants to keept easy low light ones

when i get around to it i do have 2 types of fertilizer i add (one for carbon and a general one) cant remember the names off hand, will check when i go home.

i have a dark green hairy algae which definitely grows, but not at an alarming rate.

i would assume that with all the frozens im currently putting in the tank i do have too much nutrients, although i havent bothered to check - will definitely post the results when i do

yeah, i know they are slow growing, that doesnt bother me, just that the big anubias slowly (took 6 months or so) got covered in hairy algae. remove the worst affected leaves when i can.

i used to keep ambulia - but it grew at a ridiculous rate and got so messy... had to prune almost 2 inches off it weekly and then it just got too stringy looking

also i saw a picture of my 3 ft tank when it was heavily planetd and it looks awesome, just thought it would be cool if i could have a little 2 ft tank looking cool all planted up, and serving the double purpose of removing nutrients. will definitely look at different kinds of low light faster growing plants, planning a minor reaquascape at the mo.

not worth it if its just gonna get covered in algae too...

[evilknieval69]

nitrates should be as close to zero as you can manage.

Not always true in a planted tank, infact plants need nitrate to grow. You want your Nitrates to be around 10 in a planted tank (ideally) but anywhere close is generally alright.

Also, frozen foods (usually) contain very high amounts of phosphates (which will be feeding your algae beautifully) so you should rinse them all under freshwater first

[nemines]

You want your Nitrates to be around 10 in a planted tank (ideally) but anywhere close is generally alright

i'd have to disagree with you, evil. your plants should be using the nitrate as it is produced thus giving you a reading closer to zero. high nitrates can inhibit plant growth. nevertheless, a nitrate reading of 10ppm isn't really going to cause much, if any, trouble. however, if it keeps going past 10ppm, it could mean that there is an imbalance in the aquarium, i.e. too many fish, or too much food.

regarding the use of fine filter pads and filter wool, i've heard that they are not really necessary and if you use them then they should be replaced frequently, as they'll contribute to a nitrates problem. i don't use them myself and my water is just as clear.

[alanmin4304]

This is only a guess but here goes. In some countries phosphate is added to fish before freezing it because it helps to retain the moisture when it thaws out. There is a debate about this but some people would say there is good profit in selling people water (like when they add 1 killo of water to 1 killo of pork to make your bacon that will never go crisp). Others would claim that it improves the quality of the product by keeping it moist.

It would not surprise me therefore that phosphate could be added to frozen foods such as bloodworms and this could increase the levals even further. It cannot be eliminated but can be controlled by washing and water changes. As proteins are a string of phosphates with amino acids hanging off them any food containing protein will contain phosphates and nitrogen compounds and plants need them to build protein themselves. It is once again a matter of balance.