NTD(neon Tetra disease)

[Dixon1990]

On most pages on the net about neon tetra disease it says the red line fades in white patches, My neon tetras red line fade in one go to a pink colour with no white patches,then sart swimming funny, could this still be NTD? I also have black widows, glowlights, rams, plecos,cory and loaches and head&tail lights. could these fish also get NTD?

[alanmin4304]

My book says the fading is on the blue line but I do remember seeing it on the red. It will only affect some tetras but I can't remember them all. Glowlights are one. Colour fading in neons is a sign of stress so it may be from another cause.

[Dixon1990]

THe tank is a bit overstocked, i am slowly taking fish out though. Ammonia seems to be at 0.

[Dixon1990]

Just had to send one of the albino glowlights to fishy heaven. it had lumps growing just before the tail and was swimmin funny

[Dixon1990]

i was planning on moving the fish from the same tank as these to a larger one soon, SO what fish should i move first(ones that can get NTD). WOuld the catfish(BN,cory,hoplo)ANd loaches be immune to this disease? Will these fish carry the disease? ANd how do i move the fish to the larger tank without giving the disease to the new tank?

[evilknieval69]

Hey Dude. I dont know much about NTD so did a bit of reading and found this which is quite helpful

Cichlids such as Angelfish, and Cyprinids such as Rasboras and Barbs, also fall victim to the disease. Even the common Goldfish can become infected. Interestingly enough, Cardinal tetras are resistant to the ravages of Neon Tetra disease. Caused by the sporozoan, Pleistophora hyphessobryconis, the disease is known for its rapid and high mortality rate among neons. To date there is no known cure, the only 'treatment' being the immediate removal of diseased fish to preserve the remaining fish.

The disease cycle begins when parasitic spores enter the fish after it consumes infected material, such as the bodies of dead fish, or live food such as tubifex, which may serve as intermediate hosts.

Once in the intestinal tract, the newly hatched embryos burrow through the intestinal wall and produce cysts within the muscle tissue. Muscles bearing the cysts begin to die, and the necrotic tissue becomes pale, eventually turning white in color.

It says that cichlids and cyprinids can both get it, but does not mention catfish at all. I would think that they could probably be carriers though.

I will keep reading and see if i can find out more

Reference: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disea ... isease.htm

EDIT:

Not alot more help but found this too which Caryl posted on a thread here a little while back

Pleistophora hyphessobryconis is the organism commonly known as neon tetra disease and named after the first fish in which it was identified.

More common than some aquarists think, it can affect more species than just neons. Although it usually strikes members of the tetra family, it has also been found in barbs, rasboras, angelfish, and even goldfish. Interestingly enough though, cardinal tetras, Cheirodon axelrodi, are resistant to the disease.

Known for its rapid and high mortality rate, a cure is so far unknown. Immediate removal of the diseased fish is required as the disease starts its cycle when parasitic spores enter the fishes after they eat infected material, like the bodies of the dead fish, or through live foods such as tubifex worms, which may serve as intermediate hosts.

Once in the intestinal tract, the newly hatched embryos burrow through the intestinal wall and produce cysts within the muscle tissue. Muscles bearing the cysts begin to die and the necrotic tissue becomes pale, eventually turning white.

Symptoms of neon tetra disease are;

restlessness

colour loss

difficulty swimming

body becomes lumpy as cysts form

spine may curve in advanced cases

secondary infections like bloat and fin rot

Initially, the only symptom may be restlessness, especially at night. The affected fish doesn’t school with the others and its swimming becomes erratic and it is obvious the fish is sick.

As the disease progresses the affected muscles start to turn white, usually within the colour band and areas along the spine. This pale colouration gets bigger as additional muscles are affected. Damage to the muscles can cause deformation of the spine making it difficult for the fish to swim. Sometimes, as the cysts develop and deform the muscles, the fish’s body will look lumpy.

Rotting fins, especially the caudal fin, is common but this is due to secondary infections rather than the neon tetra disease itself, as is bloating.

Many reported cases of cures are a result of misdiagnosis as certain bacterial infections mimic this disease. Some protozoan drugs are said to alleviate symptoms but this hasn’t been substantiated with scientific studies.

Not all neons are carriers but if the disease is present in one specimen in a tank, it may have already infected all the other neons in the tank. Never buy fish from a tank with sick or dead fish. Fish that do not school, or hang apart from the others, must be suspect.

To prevent disease, quarantine all new fish for at least two weeks and maintain high water quality.

Once infected, it is nearly impossible to rid a tank of the parasite if there are infected fish present. Anytime one fish picks at another, they are at risk of contracting the disease. Although spores may be present in many aquariums, careful cleaning and maintenance will remove most of them. It is only when a fish consumes the spores that they become infected.

Ref: http://freshaquarium.about.com/

[Dixon1990]

I hope my rams dont get it I dont think they will, cos if it is NTD, it would have been in my tank since i had my last neons that died(2moths ago?) And i had black widows, catfish,volcano rasbora,loach's and rams then and none have got it so far. I will seperate all glowlights and neons soon, when i can find a tank/container and heater for them :-?

[Dixon1990]

I will have to start my cycle on my 250L from scratch then :evil:

[MrEd]

I have lost 4 Rams to what I thought may have been TB but reading after this may be NTD? They seemed to be eating OK but grew thinner and lost their colour then off to the fishy tank in the sky .... via the sewerage system! I did loose some GlowLights and Neons with similar symptoms but the Neons also developed bent spines and one of the GlowLights also had a swollen belly.

[Caryl]

Do you know the age of the fish? They will fade, get a little ragged looking and get thin when old.

[Dixon1990]

No idea on age of fish, but they came from 2 different places, Animates and a friend of my dads both albino glowlights about 3 neons and 3 glowlighs have different symptoms faded red line, funny swimming, some ragged fins and lumps growing around their tails.

[MrEd]

My Rams oldest Ram was only 1 1/2 years max and the youngest 6 months. The neons were a bit harder to say though I have some that I would call geriatric as they came with a 4 y/o tank and are pale and skinny but. The glow lights I bought and were 1 year.

[Dixon1990]

the rams probably died cos of water quality or just cos there poor quality. Did you get the rams from a breeder or shop?

[MrEd]

I got mine from a shop. I doubt it was poor water quality as I do 1/3 weekly water changes and have a well cycled tank (pH 6) with large peat filter!

[Dixon1990]

Some of the shop ones arent that great, i know a few people that have bought them and only last a year or less, they just start to fade then die for know apparent reason.

And back to my tank..

i was planning on moving the fish from the same tank as these to a larger one soon, SO what fish should i move first(ones that can get NTD). WOuld the catfish(BN,cory,hoplo)ANd loaches be immune to this disease? Will these fish carry the disease? ANd how do i move the fish to the larger tank without giving the disease to the new tank?

How will i move the fish to anew tank without spreading disease to new tank water?

[alanmin4304]

You wont. Neons don't live that long and it may be something else. Get your neons from a breeder like Critter Kingdom in Stanmore Rd. I got mine from there and they are dying of old age. They don't cost much so I would advise to start again and see what happens to these over time.

[Dixon1990]

So should i just get rid of all the faded/lumpy ones?

[alanmin4304]

If that is what they have. I would not mix the fish until you figure out the problem.

[Dixon1990]

mix what fish?

[alanmin4304]

Sorry, I thought you were thinking of setting up a new tank. I am suggesting you don't put these fish in there with other fish. Any of these fish.

[Dixon1990]

none of thfish like Bristlenose, corys, loaches etc?

[alanmin4304]

correct.

[Dixon1990]

Well that screws up all my plans then :-? THat means il have to get rid of these fish then.

[alanmin4304]

There is more than one right answer but the best answer is the one that is right for you. If you don't put anything: fish, water, filters etc from this tank into your new tank you cannot transfer any disease, but if you do then you run that risk. The problem in this tank may not be too serious and may come right. I would just keep the two systems seperate and see what happens. Neon tetra disease usually has a rapid course and is fatal so if that is not happening it will be something that could be curable.

[Dixon1990]

Ok im going to seperate all neons and glowlights,then do a 40-50% waterchange on main tank. And see what happens from there.And in the mean time i will start cycling my new tank from scratch.