Mandarin Fish Care Thread

[tHEcONCH]

Like a few others on here, I have acquired a Mandarin Fish and thought it might be a good idea to start a thread dedicated to sharing info and care tips. If you find any good info please post a link here and share your experiences (good and bad) so that we can learn from each other.

Judging by the number of marine snail eggs I see laid in my RSM vs the number of new snails, I suspect that my Mandarin eats the baby snails pretty readily, so perhaps getting a breeding population of snails in your tank is a good idea if you are going to keep one.

Here are some links to some good info:

http://www.melevsreef.com/mandarin_care.html

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~delbeek/delb15.html

http://www.marineaquariumadvice.com/fee ... dus-2.html

[fish-unit]

Good idea.

I also have a green mandarin in a RSM which when i aquired it was skinny as a twig with a sunken in stomach.Shes now big fat and looking better than ever.

Some people say that a RSM is to small to house a mandarin,but in my PERSONAL experince and not just some crap ive read of the net,An RSM is a fine candidate for a mandarin aslong as you have a healthy pod population and a mature tank.

Pod population is bigger than ever and so is my mandarin,proof is in the pudding,no 2 ways about it.

I will try and get some photos of her tonight 8)

[tHEcONCH]

Yep, I've had a similarly positive experience, but I don't want everyone throwing Mandarins in small tanks without knowing how we sustain them - time to get the information out there

[tHEcONCH]

Some good advice from JoeBlog from another thread...

You can still get them, but you just have to get them from other reefers. Maybe you could convince one of the other locals with an excellent population to let you have some from time to time. You can simply put a non-toxic plastic scrubbing pad (those that look like a hair ball) in their tank/refugium/sump. The little guys will pack into it and there you go. I had gotten some from John in the past when he had his propogation tank up and running. Unfortunately, he doesn't have it any more.

I probably wouldn't be the best candidate since I'm bare bottom and run filter socks from my overflows. You need to ask someone with a nice, full sand bed and no mandarines.

[Guest Anonymous]

I suspect that my Mandarin eats the baby snails pretty readily

I don't think this is going to be the case, Mandarins are very selective and prefer to only eat live (moving) food. The snail eggs maybe coming the food of other omnivore fish (such as clowns, shrimps). Some Mandarins will move onto prepared food, but this is not enough to sustain them (note: Spotted are more likely to do this than Green).

I have found Melevsreef to be quite good. You can do a search for the "Mandarin Diner" as a way to supplement the mandarins food source with prepared foods. However, this assumes your mandarin eats prepared food and figures out how the diner works.

Some people say that a RSM is to small to house a mandarin,but in my PERSONAL experience

Your mandarin has been in your tank for >=3mnths. In captivity you need to wait atleast 6-12 months as this is the timeframe a mandarin will usually die of starvation after consuming your pod population. It is recommended that a tank size of atleast 200L with 30kg of Live Rock be used.

You can simply put a non-toxic plastic scrubbing pad (those that look like a hair ball) in their tank/refugium/sump.

This is something I do in my tank, I keep Live Rock and half the black sponge (from a RSM) in my sump to harvest pods. I also dose my tank daily with Phytoplankton to feed my copepods. I also dose daily with Rotifers, not sure if the Mandarin eats them or not but it is believed that they do.

Originally I had my mandarin in a mature 215L tank, she did a wonderful job of decimating the pod population over a 6month period (with no competing pod-eaters). Now she has been moved into a 520L (+200L Sump) tank with 80kgs+ of Live Rock and more in the sump. The tank is dosed daily with phytoplankton to feed the copepods specifically for the mandarin.

I will admit that now she is housed with 2 small Bangaii Cardinals who will consume pods as a side-dish to prepared foods. I have stayed away from Angels/D.Angels/Wrasse as I do not wish to introduce a fish that will directly compete with my Mandarin.

This is how I care for my Mandarin. I will be introducing another one to my tank shortly for them to mate.

[reef]

Mandarins won’t eat baby snails.

Mine eats copods in the tank, sometimes he eats brine shrimp and mysis.

He has been in my tank for about two years and i don’t really try to feed him.

They tend to feed at night when the copods are out so it might be a good idea to put some brine shrimp in the tank at night as they might get some.

You do need a well established tanks and a substrate for the copods to breed.

Not sure that phytoplankton is really required as pods grow like mad and will have more than enough food in an established tank.

If you feed coral food then the pods will eat it. At night get a torch and you should see hundreds of copods.

[jolliolli]

Hi Zaita

where do you get the phytoplankton from? is it available to buy? My tank is 400L with around 50kg of live rock, the mandarin is the only fish in the tank that eats pods. I think the mandarin has been in the tank at least a year prior to me owning it so must be finding enough food ( i do see pods racing out and about at night and also when i clean the tank) but i'd still like to boost the pod population.

BTW do mandarins eat both amphipods and copepods? i see quite a few larger pods in the tank.

[reef]

yes mandarins will eat amphipods also. anything small.

They also eat white worms.

coral food is the best to boost the copods and amphipods.

They multiply really quick, it is small enough for them to take it.

[jolliolli]

im feeding reef roids so that should be suitable?

[reef]

sure that will be fine, dont over do it as you will pollute your tank.

[reef]

Not my mandarin but cool pic.

[Guest Anonymous]

That photo shows a pair of mandarins doing their mating dance

They tend to feed at night when the copepods are out so it might be a good idea to put some brine shrimp in the tank at night as they might get some.

Actually, Mandarins sleep at night and will spend the day eating. They are a daytime hunter. If you have a Mandarin that is ready to mate you can observe it/them coming out of the rocks near sunset and parading with fins up in the open looking for a mate. If they find a mate they will spawn and then head off to bed (if they don't find a mate they go off to bed.. sad ). You can often find you Mandarin sleeping on a piece of sand, but don't be alarmed if the Mandarin looks dead.. they turn white during the night.

Not sure that phytoplankton is really required as pods grow like mad and will have more than enough food in an established tank.

Because Copepods (like Brine Shrimp and Rotifers) are filter-feeders. Phytoplankton is an ideal food source for them. It is highly nutritious and when available easy to use. The other good side to it is that it is very hard to foul your tank with Phytoplankton because Corals love it too.

where do you get the phytoplankton from? is it available to buy?

Currently, Phytoplankton is restricted and permission from MAF is required to keep it. There are people at either end of the Nrth Island however who you can obtain some from.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hi Zaita

where do you get the phytoplankton from? is it available to buy? My tank is 400L with around 50kg of live rock, the mandarin is the only fish in the tank that eats pods. I think the mandarin has been in the tank at least a year prior to me owning it so must be finding enough food ( i do see pods racing out and about at night and also when i clean the tank) but i'd still like to boost the pod population.

BTW do mandarins eat both amphipods and copepods? i see quite a few larger pods in the tank.

A good attitude. 400L tank can happily sustain a pod population for the Mandarin. If you would like to boost the Pod population an easy way is to get some live/dead rock pieces (small ones) and build a little pile that the fish will not be able to get into. Then squirt some shrimp into it every couple of days. The copepods will learn that this is a safe place they can goto eat and will use it. But don't be surprised if ur Mandarin sits beside it

[reef]

Actually, Mandarins sleep at night

yes they sleep at night but prior and after the lights go out they tend to come out and looking for food.

i observe mine hunting copods at the back of the tank all day but never really see him until night time.

Mandarins don’t need copods and can do well in a small tank if you have no other fish as they are too slow to compete.

Most will eat frozen foods if they can get to it, but nothing beats live food.

Because Copepods (like Brine Shrimp and Rotifers) are filter-feeders. Phytoplankton is an ideal food source for them. It is highly nutritious and when available easy to use. The other good side to it is that it is very hard to foul your tank with Phytoplankton because Corals love it too

Might be a ideal source but it is not required to breed copods.

i have thousand and dont feed phytoplankton which is hard to look after and requires a lot of work. especially if you want a pure strain.

For most hobbyist it is a pain to look after alage cultures.

For copods most of the coral type foods would be more than enough to keep the population going.

Problem is if you have to many small fish as they will eat most copods so its hard to sustain large populations of them.

Having a sump with a small sand bed is ideal as they will breed and you will be able to get large numbers which will go into the main tank and the fish will then feed on them.

Like brine shrimp copods are not very selective in foods so they will eat anything.

I just started a new small new tank with a few rock and corals with no fish and noticed today that there are hundreds of them. No food has been added to the tank.

Copods have more than enough food source in a matured tank.

I dosed phytoplankon(nannochloropsis oculata , chlorella and phaeodactylum tricornutum) 2-20 microns.

Did not really get great improvment in corals.

Currently, Phytoplankton is restricted and permission from MAF is required to keep it

Most micro algae are only allowed in containment and ERMA has approved a number over the years.

Unlikly that it can be imported unless you have a containment facility and keep it contained.

would be a cool to breed mandarines as it does not look that hard but takes time.

A hobbyist once had a massive mandarin which was stunning, never seen any that large again.

You would think in a country that specialises in aquaculture it would be easy to get algae’s and live food, But not so as many places only keep it for themselves.

[Guest Anonymous]

yes they sleep at night but prior and after the lights go out they tend to come out and looking for food.

i observe mine hunting copods at the back of the tank all day but never really see him until night time.

I might have to stay up a little later and check mine out. She is seen during the day hunting for pods and eating. I have often observed her asleep during the night on the sand.

Mandarins don’t need copods and can do well in a small tank if you have no other fish as they are too slow to compete. Most will eat frozen foods if they can get to it, but nothing beats live food.

Mandarins do NEED copepods. Some mandarins will take prepared foods (Spotted more likely than Green), however prepared food is not enough to sustain a mandarin nutritionally. They are the ultimate grazing fish and require multiple small feedings. If you could feed your mandarin 5x+ a day then I am sure it may survive on prepared foods. Copepods are the most abundant and utilised source of protein in the ocean. Most fish will eat copepods as a food source, some alot more than others.

I have only seen 1 really successful attempt at keeping mandarins in a Nano tank (12g (50L)). The guy was running multiple copepod cultures on his windowsill thou and constantly dosing. I have seen no successful accounts of people sustaining a mandarin long-term on just prepared food. No doubt 1 day it will be accomplished and I would like to see it being done because alot of mandarins die due to poor care but it will be a difficult task.

Might be a ideal source but it is not required to breed copods.

i have thousand and dont feed phytoplankton which is hard to look after and requires a lot of work. especially if you want a pure strain.

For most hobbyist it is a pain to look after alage cultures.

For copods most of the coral type foods would be more than enough to keep the population going.

Yep this is good info for people They will eat everything and anything. Phytoplankton is the right size for Copepods, highly nutritious and when cultured overly abundant. But yea it can be a pain to maintain/grow.

Problem is if you have to many small fish as they will eat most copods so its hard to sustain large populations of them.

This is often overlooked by many people. Even clownfish will eat copepods! A Mandarin just eats ALOT more than most fish

Like brine shrimp copods are not very selective in foods so they will eat anything.

The joy of being a filter feeder! You can even culture copepods in a jar on your windowsill feeding them just flour

I dosed phytoplankon(nannochloropsis oculata , chlorella and phaeodactylum tricornutum) 2-20 microns.

Did not really get great improvment in corals.

This is good to know I dose it more for helping my frags take hold and feeding my Copepods. Some people notice a great improvement, but I suspect you are dosing enough to keep your corals happy and healthy so the phyto would be covered.

Most micro algae are only allowed in containment and ERMA has approved a number over the years.

Unlikly that it can be imported unless you have a containment facility and keep it contained.

Sad, But True. However it maybe easy to import Copepods! I am going to be verifying this in the coming months! Watch this space!

would be a cool to breed mandarines as it does not look that hard but takes time.

Actually, Only a small number (<10 to my knowledge) have successfully raised a mandarin fry to adulthood. They are extremely difficult to breed due to the food requirements they have as fry. A-lot of rotifer strains are too big (>100micron) for them so no known first-food has been widely successful. Most of the people who have raised the fry have only raised 1. This is my ultimate goal in the marine hobby and the reason behind my 500L tank. There was a German scientist who managed to raise one (I believe the first in the world) and you can find her instructions (in German) but she leaves alot of details out. There is also a breeding log on RC that accounts a guys attempts to raise one over 18mnths but he never succeeded.

A hobbyist once had a massive mandarin which was stunning, never seen any that large again.

A guy in Welly has a full grown FAT female mandarin, quite stunning to see. Mine gets fatter every day and she is awaiting the arrival of her bf

who I hope to be fat!

You would think in a country that specialises in aquaculture it would be easy to get algae’s and live food, But not so as many places only keep it for themselves.

Yep! Another Sad but true fact. There are alot of people (like Reef) who are fighting to change things for us though. So we must give credit where it is due! 1 Person can make a difference.

[reef]

Currently, Phytoplankton is restricted and permission from MAF is required to keep it

Interesting re getting live Phytoplankton.

Found out from ERMA that we have about 26 Micro algaes that can be imported as it was added by the Auckland university.

Maf approval is easy.

Be good to get starter culture and to get a easy supply if it crashes.

Been looking at importing some however too expensive and it only last for 2-3 weeks and expensive to dose large tanks.

[Guest Anonymous]

Yea.

There is someone in Akld Culturing and Selling it already

I have 4 strains in Wellington that have been going to a couple of people.

Nannochloropsis, Tetraselmis, T-Iso and Chaeto

[puttputt]

Yea.

There is someone in Akld Culturing and Selling it already

yep, and he's doing a smart job of it too!!!

[reef]

would be interesting to find out how they remove the excess heavy metals from the plankton,

When plankton is cultured the water contains high nutrients and has to be removed before you dose it to your tank,

Pretty much like growing brine shrimp . you have to dose the plankton with high nutrients to make it nutritional, and the only way is to use fertiliser,

So how do they remove the fertiliser, otherwise you will be dosing it to your tank.

yep, and he's doing a smart job of it too!!!

are you using it?

if so can you test the po4 and nitrate to see if any?

[puttputt]

Trialling it at the mo, so yep, will test and come back!

[Guest Anonymous]

would be interesting to find out how they remove the excess heavy metals from the plankton,

When plankton is cultured the water contains high nutrients and has to be removed before you dose it to your tank,

you have to dose the plankton with high nutrients to make it nutritional, and the only way is to use fertiliser,

So how do they remove the fertiliser, otherwise you will be dosing it to your tank.

are you using it?

if so can you test the po4 and nitrate to see if any?

Well, Per 1L of Phyto you are only use 1ml of 'Fertiliser'. You use a silicate free F/2 blend. So you are dosing a very minimal amount. With the diatoms the silicate is 1ml per 10L so its even less.

[reef]

Intersting about dosing plankton as it might not be good for your tank , but is good for breeding marine fish in the early stages.

po4 could be a problem and the copper/diatoms.

Interestingly, research indicates that the scleractinian corals rejected algae and other plant material. Research indicated that even if plant material was ingested it was not digested and regurgitated. This has interesting implications for the hobbyists since it could lead to the conclusion that "green water" or phytoplankton may not be a suitable food for hermatypic scleractinian corals.

Hobbyist observe that acropora get more polyp extentions, however that does not mean that they use the plankton. the plankton could cause the poylps to extend as they are hitting the corals.

So, should you rush in and start feeding your reef aquarium heavily ? NO !. Increase in feeding should be gradual, providing enough time for your aquarium to adjust to the increase in food. The aquarium will adjust by allowing the exisiting animals to respond to the increase in availability of food by increasing their population. This increase is not going to take place instantly, and occurs over a period of time. Our problem is to balance food input and export/assimilation to keep the level of dissolved nutrient low. A good sand bed fauna and a good skimmer will generally help in keeping the nutrient levels low and allow you to feed at levels that suits the wide diversity of life in the reef aquarium.

[Guest Anonymous]

Interesting to read.

And funny enough, I got my Phyto so I could breed Mandarins But at the moment my CBS is holding eggs and my Skunk Cleaners will be holding in the next few days

Fun fun!

[tHEcONCH]

So, what would be needed to make a 'pod hatchery'? I have a couple of spare 80 litre tanks in a rack in the garage - I thought I might convert one or both into some sort of hatchery for pods etc - would I need to bother skimming? I was thinking of just live rock, no corals, T8 (low) light and an internal filter minus pads for a bit of circulation - your thoughts?

[tHEcONCH]

As a matter of interest, who out there is keeping a Mandarin and how big is your tank?

I have 1 x Green Mandarin in an RSM (130litres) - seems minimally adequate