Pies Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Zeovit. Been lots of debate on many boards around the world regarding this product, much speculation. I was not going to use Zeovit but my good friend JetSkiSteve saw a tank with Zeovit and was VERY impressed. Steve is a hard sell and it was his impression of a tank running the system that has led me towards the use of it myself. To be completely clear on this point, I am talking about Zeovit, Z E O V I T. There are other systems, and I have no way of knowing if they are better or worse, but to remake my point I am using Zeovit. Enter Brendon (ZEOVITNZ). Brendon sells and uses the Zeovit system. Brendon is an very nice guy, easy to deal with, friendly and very well knowledgable. I brought some frags from Brendon (prior to deciding to use Zeovit) and was very happy with our transaction. Brendon has moved to a much smaller tank, and he sent me a few Acro frags, including a metellic green and several blues. Small frags but destined for much bigger things. All have survived and are doing well. After seval conversations and lots of reading I decided to go ahead and try Zeovit for myself. I purchased the system about 2 months ago, but have needed to organise some other things first. (yes Brendon its been in the fridge). So what did I get? 4 kg of Zeolite (the rocklike media, enough for 6 months), ZeoBak, Zeofood & Zeostart. Basically the liquid bacterria and food that grow on the zeolite media. I won't reveal the cost, you can discuss pricing with Brendon directly. I did feel it was a little expensive but whats not with this hobby. I also purchased a Growtech reactor (reccomended by Zeovit system). I will post some photos another day but I will go on record and say that I do NOT like this piece of equipment. Although it works perfectly, and is designed to let water flow UP through the reactor, not down, it has a MAJOR design floor. The lid seals with an o-ring and nothing else. It sits (snugly) on the top. To much pressure or a knock and the lid could come off! LEAKS! Arghhhh! If you can run this unti 'in sump' then that would be fine, I however can-not do this. Thus I find this unit VERY SCAREY. I also have some other gripes with it, but won't go into it. I have done some DIY (minor) to it to make it better. I also have a system to make the lid stay on no matter what, but this thing could be better. So I have the media in the reactor (2kg) and water has been ciruclating through it. I am using gravity to feed the reactor, which saves me another pump, and gravity always works... This is working well. The Zeovit system using the above liquid and media in proportion to the tank size (larger systems require more). I have setteled on 700 litres. Not I suspect thats being a little light, but I would rather under dose than over dose. So tonight I added 7ml of Zeostart, 7 drops of Zeobak & 7 drops of Zeofood. I am doing this 'by the book' and 100% as per Zeovit & Brendons advice. The goal is to reduce phosphates and nitrates to 0. Zeovit is supposed to remove these from the system, ridding the sandbed and live rock of any trace of these. This is why I have decided to use the Zeovit system. If I have problems or don't like it or can no longer afford it, I will know that I can stop using it and it will have at least removed lots of latent phosphates and nitrates from the system, which is always good. I will keep you all apprised of my progress. Comments welcome. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Get some before photos up so we can compare the progress, also what is your nitrate and phostphate readings at the momment ? are they still zero. i would also make weekly water changes as per the instructions as the zeolite contains high iron which could cause hair algae. the water changes will reduce the iron. http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=de_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lars-sebralla.de%2Fmeerwasser%2F..%2Fma_zeovit.html look forward to hear about the progress, maybe weekly updates ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 Cool you got me motivated so i went down to the plastic shop to get stuff to put the Zeovit in, will get it plumbed in soon, have been running carbon to prep for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicks Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 No point in weekly updates, Its no quick fix so best to update every couple of months at the most. I have been using Zeovit for 2 months and my tank is looking good and I am pleased with the progress so far. The general visual well being of my tank is good and I am having some good growth from all inhabitants especially my sps.PO4 undectectable using Salifert. I have had no startling colour changes to my sps, but they are bright and healthy with good polyp extension and excellent growing tips, I am not expecting rapid changes in colour, nice slow progress is the way to go in this hobby See you in another two months for an update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 Day 2. Added 7ml of Zeostart, 7 drops of Zeofood & 7 drops of Zeobak. Also I have cleaned the skimmer cup. I ususally do this once a week, but will try and do it twice per week for as long as interest holds. I tested Phosphates with both Hagen & Salifert. 0. I have NEVER had a reading for phosphates. I having been using Salifert phosphate killer since about day 1. Freshwater is added via RODI. Nitrates. Less than 5 on Salifert. Definitaly present and if I had to guess I would say 2, but less than 5 is safter as the colour change tests can be a little off. Observations - After 1 day, no change! NickS - I agree with you, its a slow process and many not seing any changes until well after 6 months. I have a lot of rock in my tank, and a lot of sand so I expect it will take quite some time for the Zeovit to kick into life. Tanks with no sand and little rock can see results much faster. I have had excellent coral growth and polyp extension without the use of Zeovit, so I am looking for it as an improvement to colour and to help clense the tank of algae etc. I also want to feed the tank much heaver than I do. I intend on keeping my fish stocking levels low. I'll keep the updates going. Reef - Don't worry I have millions of photos for comparison! DISASTER! Came home today to find about 10-15L of water on the carpet. Reason? That STUPID Growtech reactor. It now gets my 'worst buy' sticker and comes completely un-reccomended, stay well clear. My friend 'Cisco' in .au is also using Zeovit (from Brendon) and we are doing it in tandom, kind of. He has been forced to modify his. Here is a pic of what he has resorted too. Cisco is an engineer, I am going to look at having something similar made for me. Pic - I have modified mine by changing the o-ring fitting, and attaching a bracket similar to the once pictured, however mine is a little more 'ghetto'. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 The grotech zeovit reactor is sold with a pump that pumps around 2000 litres an hour. It is designed for this flow rate only. If it is modified and used with a pump that pumps 3500 litres an hour like in "Cisco" case the water will struggle to come out the outlet without putting strain on the o ring. I personally use the reactor with the pump that is recommended and have had no problems with the lid coming off. The lid is designed to come off quickly and frequently to enable the daily stirring of the zeovit media. Regards, Brendan zeovitnz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 i would say the grotech is designed to sit in the sump so that you can shake the zeovit every day ..pies you should get a top screw lid put on it like your calcium reactor and make the water come out of the side. My two litres of phostphate killer has reduced my phostphate to .001, almost zero. since i have used my ozoner my nitrates have gone up to 5ppm., was almost zero few days ago. cant believe how much high nitrates make the acros go brown, some were starting to colour up and now they are going brown again. Think i will remove 1/2 my fish load and start up my natureef nitrate/phostphate reactor again which will get the nitrate to zero. http://www.natureef.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 Brendon - I agree with everything you say, but I am not exceeding the 2000 litres and hr by much if at all. There were 2 reasons I didn't buy the pump with the unit. 1. I only use Ehiem pumps (quality and standardisation). 2. I have the ability to use gravity, which ultimatly is better as it reduces my power bill and a little noise and heat. I will say I am 'happy' with it now, but I still think its a very poor design. Easy access is one thing, but a 'pop off lid' is insane, at the very least it should have a couple of clips or wing-nut fasten downs. It wasn't water pressure that made mine leek, it was that it must have been knocked, breaking the seal. Only a little, and was just dripping out, slowly... Reef is right about about running it in a sump, this would be much safer, I just don't have the room. If only I could go back and redesign the whole thing again from scratch! Maybee i'll setup a 2nd sump? Brendon - A question about the reactor. Using the supplied pump, or any pump rated at 2000 litres an hr. If the reacor is half full, won't this slow the action of the pump? If the reactor is completely full, won't this slow it even more? Reef - There is absoulty no doubt the low nitrate = good colour in the SPS corals. This is how so many TOTM look so good. HEAVY skimming, HEAVY lighting, low fish loads (low feeding), sps only (mostly), carbon, HEAVY water flow. All designed to minimise phosphate, nitrate and DOM. I think the 'Cisco' mod will make the reactor work just fine. I will also be running my carbon bag in this reactor (I have a 2nd seperator plate made). I will replave the carbon every week when cleaning the Zeolite. Anyway, lets hope day 3 is better, cause day 2 has sucked. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 Yes, alois is right, i have my reactor sitting in my sump. When i stir up the media each day, i turn the pump off, then remove the lid, then turn the pump to the reactor back on so the water is spilling into the sump. I then pull on the staff without the media coming out and let the media drop back on its own accord into the reactor. This method seems to stir up the bacteria and releases the bac into the aquarium. The corals then put out their feeders and feed off of the bac. The corals seem to love what ever is coming out. Yes, i would have thought that the more media in the reactor the less water flow. I think they have designed the reactor the way they have, is to encourage people to stir up the media every day without having to remove nuts and bolts. My reactor has worked fine with the original aquabee pump. Hopefully it will carry on Brendan zeovitnz/aussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 One other thing i would recommend is to not put activated carbon in the zeovit reactor. The water flow will be to much and the activated carbon will strip the aquarium of trace elements and other goodies to quickly. This can result in death for some corals. I have my activated carbon in a low flow zone of the sump and this works just fine. Brendan zeovitnz/aussie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 3, 2004 Report Share Posted April 3, 2004 The reactor is designed to sit in the sump not externally. there is no problem with the reactor just it is not to be used externally. The way to fix it is to put a flange on the top with quick release lock nuts and a washer so that it does not leak, then you will be able to use it externally. If you put carbon in the reactor you will slow the flow, so just put zeolite in it and it should work fine or get a bigger pump which will increase the flow . You could also put the zeolite in a large canister filter or maybe just place the zeolite in your sump as a substrate, should be heaps of flow in your sump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 No mucking about bought a tall plastic container & 2 baskets , put hole in top & hole close to bottom- fit the outlet pipe from my tank into the top put the 2 baskets inside, first one upside down then the Zeovit inside the upright basket clip the lid on & VOILA my $12 reactor Will keep you posted. oh my tank turnover is done by a Laguna 6, i figure this is plenty of flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 Steve. A picture speaks a thousand words. I have a feeling that your $12 reactor may end up better than my $200.00 dollar growtech jobbie. Pics of my setup tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted April 4, 2004 Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 Yeah but lucky me ,mine sits in my sump so who cares if it leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2004 Added 7 drops of Zeobak & 7 drops of Zeofood. Did not add any Zeostart today on Brendons instruction. He has suggested running 3ml every 2nd day for 12 more days. So I will do this. Zeostart is designed more to help new tanks but since my tank is over 12 months old and a little more mature I can use less. I am more than happy to 'under dose'. I gave the tank glass a good clean today with a razor blade. I find I need to do this every month. I get little green bits that sometimes get missed with the maganet, and also little corline algae grows in hard to reach spots. I also gave my 'combs' a good clean, which is a chore that needs to be done every 2-3 months. I replaced my carbon (about a 5 ounce glass), which I do every 2 weeks-ish. I am also using filter wool at the moment, which I change every 2 days. I tend to run filter wool for a week or so every month. Skimmer looks to be skimming normally. Everything else looks normal. I should have new bulbs in the halides within the next few weeks. I hope that it is these that are giving me my algae problems. I know I said pics but not much to show and I have run out of time... Day 3 - No changes Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 Day 4. Dosed 3ml Zeostart, 7 drops Zeofood & 7 drops of Zeobak. My green montipora capricornis has almost died! It was a frag I got from Alois and was badly damaged and bleeched when I recieved it, about the size of 2 50c pieces. Since introduction into my tank its been fine and doing well, it went brown, then green and re-grew over the bleeched and dead parts. Got home today and it was 99 receded with only a few small specs of life. This is a BAD sign, I quickly fraged the coral and have 2 pieces on either side of the tank. Will see how it goes. My brown and pink capricornis are doing fine, as is EVERYTHING else. So a bit odd, I have only lost 2 corals in my tank so this is a concern. Not sure if its related to the Zeovit or not, but it is strange. Will keep an update posted. Pies *edited* Thanks Reef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 5, 2004 Report Share Posted April 5, 2004 i think you mean montipora capricornis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Added 7 drops Zeobak & 7 drops Zeofood. Another coral death. I have 2 pieces of an green plating Acropora frags. It has been fine growing and encrusting well, today 1 of the 2 frags is 90% bleeched or RTNd, hard to tell. The other frag looks fine. This coral was fine yesterday, and this has only happened today, perhapps even since 5pm today! So yes it does sound like RTN based on the speed of the damage. I am a little concerned. Why? Well in the past 12 monts the only coral I have lost is an Elegance coral (common death read Boruneman). This coral has been doing well and for a difficult to keep coral I have been very happy with its progress. Since the introduction of Zeovit I have lost 2 corals. I have made a decision that if a 3rd dies, I am doing water changes and dumping the product, aalling it a complete 'disaster' and writing it off. So far I am less than impressed. Steve? Nick? Alois? Brendon? What say ye? Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 sorry to here about the losses. i would keep using zeovit for a bit longer, its abit soon to say if it is causing the problem. also i would only add the zeofood every 2nd day as i figure the bacteria is still growing it does not need the food yet, after 7 days you stop adding the bacteria . normal i have found that zeovit does not effect hard corals only soft corals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 day two for me, no changes yet,looking hard tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Steve - My advice. Look REAL hard. What dosage you adding? How many liters of Zeovit you using? How many litres you think your tank is? Gutted. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZEOvitANZ Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Hang on guys, don't panic. You have said yourself that zeovit can take up to 9 months to show good results. Why does it take 4 days to show negative results ? First thing you should do is post your parameters as of tonight. We need to know : Salinity pH KH Calcium Magnesium Temperature. Phosphate How long has your tank been established and have you done any major changes to your tank other than adding zeovit ? Also are you adding any other trace elements and are you using any other phosphate removing media. How much zeovit media do you have for your 700 litre tank in your filter ? Brendan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted April 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Brendon, I'm not paniced, but I am concerned. If I was paniced I would have done a major water changed and ripped out the Zeovit. Zeovits reputation and the experance of others using it is the only thing stoping me for doing so though. I am not a big beliver in coninsodince (my job forces me to be a sceptic) and suspect these problems are 'caused' by the Zeovit system, stressing the coral. I have no way to prove this other than no problems existed prior to the introduction of the system. Any other changes? Cleaned skimmer and changed carbon, but these are normal tasks for me and not influanced by Zeovit. I replaced some plumbing with some new plumbing, but there is less than 1.5 metres of that in use. I did a water change last week (prior to Zeovit start) but again, this is a normal maintenance task. Paramaters are no problem: Specific Gravity 0.025. 6L of RODI water added every day via peristolic pump. VERY STABLE. PH 8.30 high, 7.98 low. This is via a recently calibrated PINPOINT electronic probe. KH 8.3 (Salifert) Calcium 430 (Salifert) Magnesium 1420 Temprature 25.5C now, drops as low as 24.5. I suspect there is about 1.5 degrees movement on temp Nitrate less then 5 (salifert) Phosphate undetectable (Salifert) NEVER had a reading. I dose NOTHING into my tank. I use about halfe a coffee mug of carbon. I used a bag of Salifert Phosphate Killer (approx 4 months old). All other animals look normal as far as I can tell. No deaths or problems outside of the 2 corals. My tank is almost exactly 1 year old. A journal of my antics can be found on my web site. I think I look after the tank pretty well. I had held off adding Zeovit until I was happy everthing was stable. Only changes planed are that I am due for new bulbs and hope to add them within the next few weeks (250 x2). I will continue with it for a few more days, however if any more coral dies I am pulling the plug. I do belive it will take months for it to show me a result, however I think it is reasonable to assume that if everything is going well until you introduce something new, and then have problems its fair to blame that change. Its going to be an interesting few days (nerve wracking too considering I am leaving the tank alone for 5 days when I come up to Auckland). Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 Interesting. Good things always seem to take time, and as we all know bad things happen quickly in our tanks. I started using zeovit myself two weeks ago, after waiting for my alk to drop to around 8, as people have reported rtn running higher alks and the zeovit system. Here are my observations so far. Small patches of green hair algae are popping up. I am doing slightly more than the recommended water changes. The suspected culprit is the high iron content of the zeovit. It is not a major problem yet, but I am watching it. Actually come to think of it, it's about time to replace my halides, so that can't be helping. During the second week, polyp extension on soft corals was the best i have ever seen, but they don't look their best colourwise anymore. Polyp extension on acro's was initially great, but has reduced a little now. Mild recession at the base of one acro, but nothing too sever, it is also a relatively new one, so may not be related. The seriatopora has had poor to no polyp extension, and the tips have gone more white (not from growth), I am reasonably worried about this one. Skimmer has pulled out a lot of extra crap (more than usual). My parameters are looking good, as of sunday: Ca = 410 Alk = 8 Mg = 1100 Salinity = 1.025 Nitrate = 0 Nitrite = 0 Phosphate < 0.015 Haven't lost anything yet so i'll see how it goes. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Alexander Posted April 6, 2004 Report Share Posted April 6, 2004 What I have noticed that you all run higher salinity than I do. I come to the end that high salinity in my tank causes problems like Pies described. I check salinity in two different ways: 1. Refractometer: 33 ppt 2. Areometer / Tropic Marin 1,0205 Salinity changes should be done very slow (some weeks) In the time you change salinity you should always keep a eye on Ca and Mg. It is very important to keep Ca around 420 mg and KH around 7, not lower und not much higher. Pies, what about your carbon ? Do you run it in a passive water flow in the sump ? That is the way to do. In the other way it will absorb to many elements to fast. This also can cause stress. I am sure I do not know the carbon you are running. In the past I have used bad carbon for only 12 hours, in the next 24 hours I lost two of my colonies. I changed the carbon and the problem has gone. All my corals where affected with loosing color, it took some weeks to come back. Please check if the carbon can be a problem. I take a look at your homepage. Very nice tank, but in my opinion your SPS do not look like low nutrients as your tests telling. Are you further running a PO4 absorber ? You should remove it as soon as possible if you do so. KH is a little bit to high, but this should not cause the problems. All other parameters, if your tests show the right results are fine, I run my tank with Mg around 1350 mg. Are you further adding trace elements to your tank ? That should be stopped if you do so. I would do a 10 % water change once, for the further times 5 % per week. Reduce the Zeovit to 1,5 liters, because I saw that you have a lot of rock in your tank. If I started with Zeovit I also noticed that the SPS lost a little bit of color. 3 weeks later the tissue lighted up and the SPS colored up in the next weeks. Hope we can find the problem. G.Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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