Kelsta Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Hi! Hubby and I have had 4 Fantail Goldfish for about 6 months now, and we just got them a bigger tank - 143 litres - over the weekend. We also added 9 minnow, one of which came from a different pet store and we bought him because he was all on his own so we thought he'd like a minnow family We transferred all 9 minnow and our goldies, plus our 4 Borneo suckers into the new tank over the weekend. They Goldfish were so happy to be in such a big tank they swam cheerfully around exploring, and seemed perfectly normal. The day after the transfer I noticed one of our Goldies sitting in a corner by himself and looked like he was 'panting' and yawning a lot. When I lookeed closer, the other 3 were yawning too. There is plenty of oxygen in the tank so I knew that wasn't it. I noticed that one single minnow we had bough was close by, also sitting very still, and 'gasping' and he had very red gills. I treated the whole tank with some white spot cure in case the minnow had brought in parasites, and transferred the sick-looking minnow to a quarantine tank and treated him too. Today is day 2 of the white spot treatment and I think I'm supposed to leave the carbon out for 3 days right?? The Goldies seem pretty happy now, although their gills do look rather 'open'. The minnow in quaratine isn't doing to well - he's shivering and either darting around madly or sitting very still. Any ideas what is wrong with him? Have I done the right thing??? THANKS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paekakboyz Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 did you use the old filtration system from the smaller established tank? perhaps an ammonia build-up from not having enough bacteria in the new tank/filtration system or from the increased number of fish in the tank? have you tested your water at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted September 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 No, The new tank has built-in trickle system, wheras the old (smaller tank) had a external filter we had attached to the side. We're using ceramic pipes and activated carbon - Bio Chem Zorb. We also added Cycle, Primus (water ager stuff to remove Chlorine etc) and Melafix - all at the recommended amounts. We were just following instructions from the store. We let the tank sit overnight and added the fish the next day. We haven't tested the water - is it necessary to test it regularly or just when something seems wrong? Thanks for your help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 If you don't have a water test kit you can take a water sample in to Animates (I'm not sure if the one in Wellington does it but the one in Melling does) but make sure you take it from the very bottom of the tank to get an accurate result. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted September 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Thanks, will do that if they still seem unhappy after the white spot treatment - it feels like a bit of a guessing game... I don't even know if there were any parasites to begin with! Although that wee minnow was flashing a lot. Anyway, thanks for the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffypants Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 That's good to know that water for testing should come from the bottom of the tank. I had always been skimming it from the top. :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Could be water quality.. do some tests. Honestly though sounds like flukes to me but be sure to rule out ammonia and nitrite first. White spot you would be able to see...if you can't se spots then that's probably not it. Affecting the gills makes it more likely to be flukes I think (they can get other parasites that live on the skin too though). The following is a goldfish page although parasites are not fussy abuot which fish they decide to live on! Use the search page for some disease info! http://www.goldfishconnection.com/artic ... arentId=10 I would dose your little quarantine tank with salt as it is effective against some parasites and if nothing else will hopefully clear some of them and will possibly make the minnow more comfortable until you can figure out exactly how to treat the lot of them (they'll all be affected if its a parasite) http://www.koivet.com/html/articles/art ... edications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted September 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 OK will take a look now. Do you think it would be wise to keep the little minnow out permanently? I'd rather lose him than our entire aquarium and our beloved Goldfish! Where can I get a good Fluke treatment from? It seems it's hard to get hold of. Will the White Spot cure help flukes? If they do have Flukes, how long will they survive for if left untreated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted September 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 One more thing: Is it safe to use salt whilst the white spot treatment is in there? Do you remove the carbon for that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Longer than if they have toxic build up of ammonia and nitrite. You be best to get a water test asap or do a water change rather than waiting 3 days. (mind you your water is probably now blue from the white spot treatment right?) I've been treating for flukes with Praziquantel. I have supplied a bundle to some folks but I don't have any left (look up drontal,droncit,prazi) (Guys.. surely someone out there has found another source of prazi or has some other treatment to recommend for flukes??!) I don't know if the white spot cure will kill flukes. You may as well leave the minnow out. Salt is cheap and really might help. Dissolve the right amount completely in some water and then pour it into his tank very slowly.. watch that he doesn't start losing his balance and if so then but him back in some fresh water. If you don't have plants in your main tank you could salt that too except I don't know if borneo suckers will handle salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 No need to use carbon anyway so keep it out. Can you take some of the filter media out of the old filter and tuck it into the new? That will help the tank cycle. Keep the other minnow out as it sounds like the problem came with them. You should be able to get a good fluke treatment from any pet shop. Don't use the bio chem zorb as it has carbon in it (hard to tell but I think you are using carbon as well as the bio zorb for some reason?) and will neutralise the meds. Also don't mix meds but the bio zorb has probably neutralised the Melafix anyway so you should be able to begin fluke treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Always remove carbon for treatment with meds (dunno about salt?) Also unsure about salt with the white spot cure. Probably be fine but don't take my word for it (try google!) Sorry I can't help with that! Caryl - Do you know of what treatments your LFS might have for flukes? I really find it hard to believe that nobody has many suggestions on that front and I'm dying to know how fishkeepers have been getting by? Brooklands say they can't import fluketabs anymore? What else are poeple using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paekakboyz Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 fluke treatments at lfs seem to have vanished! I've had a case of flukes and it was only through some great help by someone on the forum ( ) that I was able to source treatment for them. Fluketabs used to be available but seems they aren't on sale anymore... I'm not sure if Furan 2 would work with them and its been pointed out that it's a pretty mean med and should be used only when really needed. hmmm re salts are there issues in dosing with epsom salts in a planted tank? I've got a loach with a bit of constipation and was intending on putting in a weak solution (1 tbspn per 40L) this evening! glad I caught this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 I have no idea jn as I have not had to treat for any disease in my tanks for over 20 years :-? Also - I don't have a lfs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 You don't have a lfs... well I hate to say it but that could be why you've never had to treat for disease in 20 years Everything would be a carefully considered adddition I dare say.. and by carefully considered I mean gets at least a few hours consideration on the drive home Do you use a Qt tank or have you been lucky? Seriously though....is there anyway the association can lobby for better access to some basic fish meds? Prazi is a well recognised medication (it's even mentioned in the Merck's Vet manual online). Surely we should be able to buy it in liquid form in suitable fish-sized containers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolliolli Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 furan-2 won't work for parasites its used to treat gram+ and gram- bacteria. As for treating parasites i don't think you'll find any shop that sells anti-parasite meds, seems to be a vet medicine now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 I dont know if epsom salt has the same effect as regular salt on plants? and some plants may well be able to handle the amount of salt that you'd use to dose with anyway... I dont know from any personal experience. I've usually dosed salt in a plastic quarantine type bin (epsom salts too for that matter.. but usually cause I've been taking a sick fish out of a pond and needing to put it somewhere anyway. I just mention it might be a risk cause I believe that's what I've read and would hate to have someone come up with a whole bunch of dead plants cause nobody mentioned it might affect them The plants are almost more expensive than fish sometimes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowfax Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Seriously though....is there anyway the association can lobby for better access to some basic fish meds? Prazi is a well recognised medication (it's even mentioned in the Merck's Vet manual online). Surely we should be able to buy it in liquid form in suitable fish-sized containers? i have someone i can ask about that, will post a reply when i get a responce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 That would be great shadowfax. Purplecatfish recently had a chat with a vet.. for $500 you can buy 5L of adtape which is effectively liquid prazi... but I think technically (based on some old 'recollections' on a 'lifestylers' site I visit from time to time I think even the vets are no longer allowed to purchase large quantities and resell in smaller lots) and who wants to spend $500 up front? Very few of us (I would be crazy enough to perhaps.. someday if I got desperate enough!!) but there's a real gap in the market here. Also prazi is still really expensive to the point where its just about cheaper to start over and hope you get clean fish! Even a malachite green/formalin mix would be a start.. both of those are currently available singly... but someone needs to combine them in some recognised concentrations to have as a treatment option for stuff like flukes (again this is a combination that's readily available overseas) and wouldn't require any special imports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 I've been lucky jn. Never used a Q tank :oops: Rarely buy fish from shops. The majority of diseases are a result of poor water quality. Keep the tank well balanced and you should be fine. I had one fish develop dropsy (which is untreatable) a few years ago but that is it since I first started fishkeeping and was dealing with white spot due to ignorance about fish requirements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimebag Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 hi kelsta, welcome to the forums. how much are you feeding your fish? i would be feeding very lightly for a few weeks, until your tank cycles. also why add whitespot cure and salt? it not very good imo to just add stuff incase thats whats wrong. better off to find out whats actually wrong. the lfs(not all) are sometimes just interested in making a sale, and will sell you whatever medications etc they can. I look in my fish cupboard and see probably $100 worth of stuff i have been persuaded to buy- whitespot cure, wunder tonic, activated carbon, ph up/down, and the list goes on... anyways thats my 2c worth, hope you can get it sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsta Posted September 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 Thanks everyone for all the advice - both the big tank and the little minnow in quarantine are doing really well this morning. I have a feeling that they all just needed some time to adjust to the new tank, plus the filter had only been running one day. And whatever was bothering the minnow seems to be gone. I will be careful not to overfeed during this time as well, thanks. We normally give them a varied diet of flakes, pellets, or brine shrimp. Mostly flakes and pellets. They like to be hand fed and they come up and take the flakes out of yor fingers - so cute ;o) Perhaps I overreacted... It's a big adjustment for them. But they are big, strong healthy fish and have never had health issues before. The carbon I was talking about is called 'Bio Chem Zorb' and it's in a little sack which you lay under the foam above the tray which the ceramic tubes are under. Removes chemicals (and meds) form the water and makes it really clear. Last 3-6 months as opposed to normal carbon. Yep, I agree we should be able to get Prazi more easily - afterall it's the most commonly suggested treatment for flukes. Thanks again for all your help everyone ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaat Posted September 25, 2007 Report Share Posted September 25, 2007 My local vet sells the adtape liquid in 50ml bottles for around $13.00 if that's any help to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Dimebag.. we did all say to be sure to rule out water quality issues first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Ditto with the water quality...new tank you really need to keep an eye on the ammonia... and maybe extra water changes are in order! Keep us updated on how your fishies are doing Cam wrote: but make sure you take it from the very bottom of the tank to get an accurate result. I didn't know that...I've never reached down far at all when I test. Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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