Graeme Holden Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 Are tinfoil barbs allergic or non tollerant to salt???? I have a huge tinfoil affectionetly known as "big fish" that was bashing his/her way out of the tank early this morning. was moving large pieces of glass and lights to get out and has suffered several shallow cuts and has blinded himself by crashing into things. I lifted him out and put him in with other large fish and he quietened down immediately but I suspect he was starving for oxygen, He/she is quiet now and has recovered from worse in the past but has suffered quite a lot of damage , funny actually the other fish seem to realise this and crowd around him seeming to protect or sympathise (stupid I know, but that is what seems to happen) Of course I have probably transferred the disease that I noted in my previous post to this tank now too but the big fish would have died had I not reacted immediately and had no option, I have dosed the tank with stress coat, but only a very small amount, cheers Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 p.s. when I lifted him out, I did it by hand and he/she has lost a lot of the mucus on his scales - hence the stress coat. Can I increase the stress coat to a full dose or should I let things settle for a while. My understanding of stress coat is that it is pretty harmless - other fish in the tank are two very old goldfish (in warm water), a large bala shark, a large silver dollar, pair of kribensis, large pleco (that I would remove but have no where to put him), and a siamese algae eater (several guppies as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 his breathing has slowed down to something like normal now, still appears to be blind but has adapted to new surroundings very quickly and is no longer panicking, pity the salt could be a problem as that is really what he needs now to help repair the damage, oh well, just have to wait I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserole Posted June 15, 2007 Report Share Posted June 15, 2007 You could try ( if you have the room ) to place him/her in a tank with peat for 2 weeks as I has anti bacterial and fungal propertys and was once used to heal / prevent infection to fish with damage as you have mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 haven't heard that one, but sounds good but no room unfortunately, but tks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserole Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Is there some one local that could lend you a tank if thats the problem?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 I've got a spare 2ft tank if you want a loan of it for a few weeks. In Epsom, near the Market Rd off ramps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caserole Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 For a large tinfoil I think anything less then a 3' tank is to small adodge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 I have heaps of my own tanks tks all the same, very nice offers though, I really have no room, update is intriguing tho :- my wife found him upside down in the tank and near death I would have thought, I had just done a 1/2 water change in the home tank so I picked him out and put him back in the main tank, he was very close to death, could not stay upright etc - last gasps looked inevitable, HOWEVER !!!, I actually held him upright for probably 1/2 an hour or so, periodically taking him to the surface for air and now is recovered enough to keep upright and get to the surface for a gulp every now and then, absolutely unbelievable really, he just does not want to die. Still appears to be blind, but now is backing away when he hits or touches something, sittting on the bottom quite a bit but does seem tobe a lot more with-it than probably 2 hours ago. moving eyes again now too, more updates to follow (for those who are interested) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted June 16, 2007 Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 Oh!! How big do they get, I thought they were tiny fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 the big fish is probably 8 inches long or so, possibly a little longer and weighs quite a bit, he is now maintaining mid-water depth so has a chance at life I guess, if he survives the night, he will have a fair chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2007 The big fish is still hanging in there and now is swimming constantly in the filter stream amid bubbles from the aerator so I think he is giving himself quite a good chance at survival, eyes look worse but that is to be expected before they have a chance to repair, but swimming or idling in the current quite well and none of the other fish are bothering him so hope he survives for a while and picks up a bit more, have not done any more treatment, two really large clown loaches have died, and can't find the smallest of the three so presume it has died too, I moved all the pearl danios and zebras and are treating them with stress coat, not check ed for a while but they did seem ok, at least not worse, tetras are in very poor shape, and the siamese algae eater is getting very weak, I may do another partial water change tomorrow depending on fishes state, no disease so far in any other tanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Sorry to hear all about those probs there Graeme. Tim and I were fortunate to have made Graeme acquaintance while visiting in Auckland recently and shared a coffee while watching his fish cruise in their tank. All the best for being able to control and fix the malady Graeme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 still need advice on stress coat, not so important now as all the loaches have died and they were the ones I was most concerned about it affecting adversely, but the big tinfoil now has lost of damage that needs to heal, the most delicate of these is to his eyes, given that they are huge about the size of a snapper, he has effectively given himself cataracts by bashing the glass and the lights to get out of the tank, now that he is quiet again and recovered a bit, I still have to treat him to get his eyesight back if I can. Salt I think is a nono as I think either that or the methylene blue killed the clown loaches, but I need advise from people who have used stress coat as to its likely effects on badly damaged fish !!, I have treated the zebras and pearly danios, 2 died but the rest seem probably 50% better than they were, this could be due to salt, methylene blue, or another treatment that has malacite green and other things in it, also I used stress coat but have very little experience with it, advise please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 the red fin tetras, the tinfoil, another tetra perhaps a columbian, all have fungus,velvet, body rot, fin rot or something along these lines, the siamese algae eater also is affected but not so bad looking but very weak, and cosby gouramis also not looking the best but not very obvious signs of fungus etc, nothing on a big pleco but he has skin like leather so I do not expect to see much on him, also two large kissing gouramis are clear as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Clean water does wonders for wounds and i could dig up a few pictures of super badly damaged fish (looked like they had been in a blender) that have healed superbly without anything other than water changes. Salt isnt gonna effect the tinfoil but it would have got your loaches, plecs if you had them and so on. The scaleless fish also prefer a half dose of most other medications so if you used a full dose of the meth blue that may well have contributed. Stress coat may or may not help, because it contains aloe vera it will contribute to the organic bioload to the tank ive been told. Ive never used it to help wounds personally. If i was in your situation i would do a water change (quietly of course, no major banging in the tank), keep the tank lights off and traffic near the tank to a minimum, add 1tsbp of salt per 40L of water and perhaps some melafix if you wish. Best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Agree of course, first tonic and cheapest too, I do not normally do it too much with the big fish as he panics whenever the level tends to get down, the tank is only a 3ft long one and he should probably be in something bigger as he is huge, but he has grown up from tiny in this tank and seems to cope very well. T he 1/2 water change I did was when I had tranferred him to another tank which was warmer and has always been a very effective tank for old and damaged fish, but it worked in reverse and almost killed him, I have very bad feelings about using the salt now as the three clown loaches were old and large and very good friends, The pleco copes by gulping air at the surface periodically so is not a problem, I have used melafix before for similar maladies and had no success so thought the stress coat could be the go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 the amount I used in the first instance was similar to your suggestion, which of course is a very light dose according to all the so called experts, but of course maybe the meth blue killed the loaches, however the first indications were that I had white spot, it was only after a while that the white spot changed in appearance to more like velvet, now it looks more like fungus or fin rot but over the whole bodies of the tetras (large adult fish) and also badly affected barbs, zebras, danios, and loaches, the clowns were the most badly affected but did not have any white spots just the velvet looking symtoms, which I now guess was made worse by the salt, but I had to try because they were getting worse and were near death anyway, happened rather quickly too which did not give me a lot of time for treatments and salt is one of the things which can work well normally (accept all the other complications of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Still hanging in there, fungus and damage is quite considerable at this stage as it is still going through it's repair and die-off I guess, looks terrible and most people would put it out of it's misery at this time, but it has been there before due to a bad accident and recovered 100% so he/she deserves the right to try again, also I have lots of affection for this fish and have moved others out of the tank just so it has some room or to stop them annoying it. Will try to do a partial water change today as that is the only thing I can think of that does not have the potential to harm it apart from disturbing it somewhat. It's large size and huge muscles preclude trying to move it as it is just too strong to hold or net and panics badly. Some of the smaller fish are trying to get close enough to remove dead tissue (a feature that was amazing last time it hurt itself, even had one fish picking dead tissue off it's eye - quite amazing as the big fish just sat there and let it) more to follow for those interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markoshark Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Perhaps do a huge waterchange, run the water out using a syphon, and have pre-heated water in a rubbish bin with a powerhead filter going into the tank? That way, it shouldn't reduce the actual amount of water in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Yep, considering all the options, he is very quiet at present, If I remove the bogwood I may be able to take the level down a bit anyways, tks for the suggestion, it is 200 plus litre tank though so not just a drop or two. Still working out my options and do not want to annoy him at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 I have put 100l into the tank and also put in stress coat, as the only person game enough to even comment on stress coat was Sharn, I am down to using my own experience to judge whether or not I should use it, my feeling is that I have to do something and the zebras and danios that I moved and treated with stress coat are looking great, this indicates to my small brain that either the earlier treatment with salt and meth blue was successful, or the change to another tank and totally different water helped, or the mixture of the stress coat and the other treatment helped, either way I can't lose much by trying, the previous water change did not appear to help all that much at all , so flying by the seat of my pants now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Holden Posted June 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 effectively for me this thread has ended, thanks for the people who did give suggestions and opinions, fish still dying but the rate has slowed quite a bit, and I think I will just do my best by myself with the rest, Graeme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Good to hear Fingers crossed that he continues to make a speedy recovery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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