jn Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 Hi all, 2 of my 6 WCMM's are showing signs of something wrong with their gills. They are eating and swimming as usual but appear to have a slightly more laboured, quicker respiration rate. They do not appear to be flashing or scratching. There may be signs of a little whiteness on their mouths but it's hard to say for sure (its definitely not fluffy like a fungus) and may just be part of their normal coloration that I"ve never noticed before. One of them looks dark. Looking at the gills, it almost looks like either something is stuck in there and hanging out (parasites?), or the gills are frayed. It's like on each gill on both sides there are some transclucent edges and the gills are not laying compltely flat/closed. (by hanging out I mean only just noticeable, like 1-2 mm, not trailing anything) About a month ago I added 3 young shubs. (about 5-6cm each) from an outdoor 'bin' to overwinter inside. They have since been removed. I monitored the water for several days after adding them and there were no ammonia or nitrite spikes. I suspect I have introduced either a bacteria or parasite but the other fish are all fine for now. There have been no real changes in pH and no changes in my maintenance routine or water supply. I recently added plants but that's when I noticed the problem so it's not the cause. I am tossing up between a salt bath or a treatment of 'Wunder cure' wich is a combo of malachite gr, meth. blue, acriflavine, quinine and formalin! I plan to treat only the affected fish in a bucket with some aeration if I used the 'wunder cure''. Can anyone advise me of whether or not I'm on the right track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 I would use the wunder cure if that is all the ingredients as listed. The fish definitely have gill flukes. The white on the lips is a concern too. If the white is over a bigger area it could be cause by a parasite, if it just white colour on the lips, then I would guess columnaris.{Bacterial infection} A pic would be great. No point separating the fish, all fish on the tank will be carry the parasite now. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 I agree. The quinine will give the flukes a huury up and the other ingredients might fix other problems. Treat the whole tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Thanks for some replies guys :-? I was getting desperate and just logging on as a last attempt for some advice before flying a kite. What happens to my biofilter if I treat the whole tank? will it'll die off completely? (what a disaster. I just added my new jordanellas to my tank!) The dark one was definitely sulking this morning and didn't come up to feed. I whipped both of them out into a bucket hoping to slow down any spread to the others. The white lips I described to my partner as 'vampire teeth'. On this particular fish is looked like 2 white 'pimples'...which I saw as a possible symptom of hex? (definitely no sign of any other spots or bumps anywhere else on the body or fins so I'm pretty sure its not whitespot) The wonder cure doesn't list treatment times or anything. All of that stuff would gradually loose it's potency once its in the water right? So maybe I can leave it in 2 days then do a significant water change (I also have some carbon I can add but there isn't any in the tank at the 'mo) I'll treat the fish in the bucket overnight (with airstone) and make sure they're ok in the morning. If not I won't dose the tank till I'll be able to keep an eye on it so I can rescue any that aren't handling it. ok.. off I go. Thanks (oh.. lights on or off during treatment? no feeding?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Ok. The WCMM's seem to be faring pretty well in the bucket it's been about 2 hours. I just did a bit more reading on the web and indications are that both meth. blue and Malachite green will effectively kill my plants. Can someone confirm this? I just put a whole swag of new plants in there a week ago Being a little tank, I would prefer to take them out, treat them with potassium permangenate while the tank gets dosed with the 'cure' and put them back in after. Any good reason not to do this? Or will the chemicals be tolerated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 If youdon't treat the whole tank you will be wasting your time as the fish will get reinfected when you put them back. The only one of the ingredients I would worry about is malachite on fish sensitive to that but that will also depend on concentration. Your plants should be OK. Quinine on its own will kill the parasites and not the plant but it is a prescription only med and would cost. There is always a risk when using meds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 I wouldn't do any water changes till everything is ok, or you will be syphoning out your meds (IMHO) Don't put the carbon in the filter till after the cure is done and after a water change. As Alanmin4304 said... TREAT THE WHOLE TANK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herefishiefishie Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Treat the tank. The white spots you mention can be nematodes. The medicine will treat that. I would dose, 30% water change in 3 days. Re dose, water change in 3 days & re dose again. 3 treatments should do it. Chances are your bacteria will be affected, your major concern is treating the fish. Yes still feed fish. As above, treat whole tank. Frenchy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Ok. Yes.. will treat whole tank. I didn't intend to put the fish from the bucket back into the tank without treating the tank. Just wanted to be sure I didn't' have any sudden deaths. The fish in the bucket this morning seem ok albeit a little lethargic (no doubt a little stressed from move out of the tank) I will also treat my shubunkins that were in the tank up until last week. I'll put my fish from the bucket back into the tank as soon as I dose the tank. Means they will have had an extra days treatment which can't hurt as they were the sympomatic ones anyway! oh and just for accuracy.. I was wrong about there being formalin in there. it's 1.5% Meth. Bl, 0.1% Ma.Green, 0.05% acriflavin 0.04% quinine. There is a handwritten expiry date on the bottle too and it's well within it's use by date. The dosing rate is 1ml/20L or 1 drop/L. Thanks again for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Formalin will blow your plants so that is a good thing. Goldfish usually carry gill and skin flukes and that is probably where you got them from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted May 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Yup.. You can bet I wont be doing that again!!! I'm definitely feeling like an eeediot!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted May 31, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 Both minnows in the bucket have just died in the last few hours. I was planning on dosing the tank tonight but now I'm not so sure. Might wait till morning as I have the day off tomorrow and can watch them. Would it be prudent to do a half dose? One of the minnows was already in a bad state when I put it in there but the other seemed perky even this morning and reasonably ok when I got in from work!?? I'm definitely perplexed at how he could have gone downhill so quickly unless the meds did it. None of the other fish in the tank seem to be showing any symptoms yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 I would treat the tank anyway as otherwise anything you put in there will get infected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jn Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Added 3 drops to my tank. I estimate there's about 25L in my tank. The recommended dose is 1 drop per/L. I let each drop disperse before adding the nextinto the flow of the filter. After the 3rd drop the Jordanellas were trying to leap out of the tank so I stopped . Being killies would this explain their sensitivity to meds? The water is pale blue. I think they've settled down now, I added my airstone which may have helped. I may add another drop later. I'd rather treat for a longer period than risk losing my Jordanellas which only arrived from Northland a 6 days ago! Any more advice? (Thanks again for your help. It's definitely reassuring) Edit: I waited several more hours yesterday and added 2 more drops (1 drop at a time, premixed with tank water and added slowly) after the end of the 5th drop (total) my smallest WCMM went ballistic and turned blue/red for a while but then settled again.. definitely wont be adding more. Will do as recommended and do a water change on day 3, replace meds to the came concentration and carry on for a total of 3 doses. Everyone is still eating this morning so that's good news :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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