fishnut Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Hi Guys, tried to get into chatroom but didn't have the java thingy, so trying to download. Might not work. Anyway another discus is dying. This is the 4th now. Its the smallest about 5 cm. Its seems to have been wasting away and not eating for the last week and today noticed it was lying on its side with white tufty bits coming out of its head. Theres 2 separate ones above its eye on one side. The other two are a picture of health. Hopefully they will stay that way!!!! Could it be hole in head or a result of bullying?. I noticed the others hassling it alot. Its in isolation with melafix and will hopefully survive the night. Any ideas. Don't want to lose another Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Usually when a discus is in this state it's not too good to get your hopes up (sorry to say). What size is the tank? Are all the fish similarly sized or is there a mix of big and small? With only 3 discus, one will be getting a hard time. With Discus, the more the better - usually 6 minimum, preferably 12. With Discus there is often a runt. It's this way because one usually gets bullied more than the rest. It's often because there aren't enough to spread the pecking around between. Often the runt will die. Then the next smallest gets picked on. Once they reach a certain size they seem to be able to cope with it (usually 75mm+). I usually keep an eye out for the one that gets bullied most. Inevitably it doesn't get to eat as much and starts to lose weight. I normally isolate this fish and feed it heaps + lots of water changes. Once its fattened up again I put it back. Usually the fish is ok after this. Some Discus just seem to die. Not many, but maybe 1 in 30-40 just waste away and there seems to be little you can do about it. However if this is the fourth one you are having trouble with there may be something else wrong. Hole in the head is usually a deficiency syndrome. It usually means not enough calcium, vitamin D & K in the diet. Hole in the head can be cured by diet alone (provided the holes aren't infected). What food do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnut Posted January 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Hi Warren thanks for replying. They are in a 3ft tank. We got them a few months ago, 7 in all. all the same size but very small. About 2-3cm. Now the biggest is about 13cm, the next about 8cm. All were doing really well till the last few weeks. We do regular 25% water changes a week. Their food consists of tetra bits, bloodworm. beef heart and some bottom feeder tabs they get before the corys do. Lately they have been getting more beef heart because we ran out of bloodworms. They poor wee thing is lying at the bottom. Not looking at all well. The fuzzy stuff coming out of its head is about 6mm long and 3mm wide. Pretty big for a wee fish. It has been bullied. Do discus like a strong current?. This tank has a powerful internal filter which does create quite a current. Maybe this isn,t helping? The ph is 6.8 and temp 28C. The tank had been running sice August. If this fish survives I will keep it in isolation as you suggested and give it heaps of TLC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Hmmm... Big size difference. Looks like a couple of dominant fish have bullied the rest and got most of the food. 7 is a good number but the tank is probably a bit small for that many. Not enough room to hide / escape bullying. The food looks ok. pH, temp ok. Discus like some water movement but not strong currents. As long as there are some fairly still areas they will be ok. However, if the current is quite strong in most of the tank, the fish will tend to find the calmest spot. This often means they all get bunched together somewhere. This helps promote the bullying. See if you can arrange the filter so it doesn't create a strong current. You may be able to install a spray bar to distribute the outlet water evenly across the back of the tank... It's worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.L Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 7 is good if you are looking for a pair. the rule is 1 adult to 10g, but I think 1 to 15g is better. I have 3 in a 3ft. You will find soon you might have pairs, and that is a cause for agression. I would keep the bullies and sell everyone that cannot protect itself. I have done this and that is why I have 3. 1 gets picked on, but it still gets food and grows because it can fight back. I would do more water changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.L Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Do they have 'small pits' ? It sounds like HITH .. do they have anything like a long thread or something coming out of the hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnut Posted January 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Well the fish didn,t last the night Will look at getting some more if we have no more probs with the last 2. Thats if we can figure out what been going wrong. I hate to lose any fish and feel guilty especially if its our fault through wrong conditions or feeding. Its a big learning curve. I don,t think there were enough hiding places. And will look at trying to reduce the current. Thanks for your help guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.L Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Well the fish didn,t last the night Will look at getting some more if we have no more probs with the last 2. Thats if we can figure out what been going wrong. I hate to lose any fish and feel guilty especially if its our fault through wrong conditions or feeding. Its a big learning curve. I don,t think there were enough hiding places. And will look at trying to reduce the current. Thanks for your help guys Lots of plants. Don't get any discus that are smaller than the biggest one. Try get them all the same size. I don't think the type of food you are giving them is the problem, as I only feed my flakes/bloodworms (I have no problems). I would get about 2 more. More water changes would help to reduce this problem. How many times a day do you feed them? Sorry to hear you lost it What types do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 Yeah, as Chirs says, get them the same size at least. If you just get small ones you'll end up with the same problem. If you put in lots of plants it gives them heaps of hiding places. You'll find they actually spend more time out front if they can hide. Maybe they get a better feeling of security or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 my five cents added. buy discus that are larger than 2-3cm. at that size they are difficult to keep alive (i know from experience, i lost 4 from my 7). Obviously you will pay more for larger fish, but the survival rate increases dramatically. Alternatively if the two you have now are getting along you could leave it at that, and hope they are a pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris.L Posted January 26, 2004 Report Share Posted January 26, 2004 It's a pitty you don't live in Auckland, I know a breeder here who sells Discus cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 so sorry to hear of your loss Fishnut.............I know how you love your fish. Some very sound advice given above and I can only agree. I had some discus from the same source as you, a few years ago, and sadly they went the same way........maybe we were sold them too small?? They were only the size of a 20cent piece. Sure hope to see you in chat soon. It is great place to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishnut Posted January 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Thanks for the advise guys, plenty of plants would help but we do have a problem with a hoplo uprooting them. Will get some more discus (and plants), definately bigger this time. Goldie- we did get them from the same source at only about 20c piece size. Not sure what kind they are but they're brownish with blue fins?? The last 2 seem really happy on their own. I do have a tendency to have some unsocial fish. Just had to remove a bristlenose from the 5ft tank. She was even beating up the whiptails!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Hole in the head is caused by both poor diet andd poor water conditions eg not enough smaller water changes instead of one large change try four small changes a week.Discus with hole in the head can be feed worms to bring them back to health,www.dph.nl has a lot of information on keeping discus, i strongly advise any body keeping discus to go to this site and read it from back to front. Hope your discus get better, robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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