Planting new tank

[Southerrrngirrl]

I've got some new plants, I don't know what they are, neither did girl at LFS, but they appear to already have roots and they came in a little plastic container thing packed with what looks like cotton wool or something similar. When I plant them in the new tank should I remove the plastic & stuff from the roots or can I just stick it right in the way it is??

I also got some JBL fertiliser balls, where do I put these? The lady at the LFS said I should push them into the gravel right next to the plants, is that right?

[alanmin4304]

The balls go close to the root zone of heavy feeding plants lke Echinodorus sp. (Amazon Sword family) The plant you have bought has been grown emersed (out of water) by hydroponics. The pot and rock wool should be carefully removed and the plant put into the media in the tank with a JBL ball under it. You generally need pretty good light to convert plants from emersed to submersed. If you don't have a lot of light you could leave them on longer till the plant gets established.

[Southerrrngirrl]

Thanks for that. I haven't a clue what the plants are (wish the LFS would label their plants!!) I'll photograph them and post pics tonight if that helps. I've been meaning to get all my plants ID'ed. The only one I know I have is Cabomba, cos I've got a book that shows pictures of some plants available and its in there.

[alanmin4304]

Hopefully someone can ID them from pics.

[Southerrrngirrl]

I've got this one

and this one

[Faran]

The first pic looks like a emersed (above water) form of Ludwigia Repens, which is an underwater plant but may be difficult to convert to submersed (underwater).

The second pic is definitely Mondo Grass/Ophiopogon japonicus and is a bog plant. This means that even though it enjoys wet roots and can survive submerged for a little while, it will die if left underwater too long.

My ID on the first plant may be off, others here will confirm or not.

[Alan]

Yep, I'd go for that to B&K

[alanmin4304]

Have to agree. Don't know much about mondo grass but Ludwigia repens will convert OK to submersed growth but needs good light or it will rot off at the bottom. With good light it will go orange with red under the leaf.

[Southerrrngirrl]

The second pic is definitely Mondo Grass/Ophiopogon japonicus and is a bog plant. This means that even though it enjoys wet roots and can survive submerged for a little while, it will die if left underwater too long.

Why do the sell it then, if its not good at growing underwater?

What about these ones? I have these in my AR850 (ignore the fact that they are being totally taken over by the brown algae (which I still haven't managed to get rid of!!) THe first one grows incredibly well, i'm constantly cutting it and planting the cuttings. The second one did take of well but seems to have slowed, possibly even stopped. no idea why.

[Faran]

The top I'd reckon to be Giant Hygrophia/Hygrophilia Corymbosa and it's a hard plant to keep from growing! The bottom... well, there's a lot of plants that look like that. If I had to venture a guess I'd reckon Broad Leaved Amazon Chain Sword/Echinodorus Quadricostatus. Both plants are proper underwater plants and the chain sword will be unhappy if there isn't enough nutrients in the soil, or light. I'd chalk the brown algae to insufficient lighting at a guess, which increasing will both take care of that and make your plants even happier.

Why do pet stores sell improper plants? Tell you the truth, it's a matter of lack of knowledge. They sell it because they often don't know or don't care, and customers buy it because they don't know and usually won't even go back to complain when it dies. I have a beautiful Peace Lilly/Borneo Sword growing in a pot which was sold to me with my first tank from a LFS as a "proper amazon sword plant". After 6 months of struggling to keep it alive, I was told what it was and planted it properly.... The LFS gave me another plant when I explained it to them, but sill sell them to this day.

Oh, and since neither of your new plants need the fertilizer balls you brought home, put them in the soil around the roots of the little chain sword. It'll love ya for it

[Southerrrngirrl]

Thanks for that, BlueandKim, I can tell you, the Amazon Chain Sword does not look happy at all. Most of its leaves are a brown holey mess.

This brown algae is really $^& me off! I do have another thread floating around somewhere discussing it, actually posted in it earlier. I've tried most of the suggestions, someone suggested I might have too many phosphates in the water so I got a test kit, it was 2ppm, which apparently isn't ideal so they told me to get phosozorb, which I couldn't find at the LFS, so don't have any of that yet. I checked my lighting it appears to be sufficient, so someone told me, (maybe its time for a bulb change??) and also have been trying adding Flourish Excell, and it still looks like it does in those pictures, perhaps even worse, theres a fair amount of that fluffy black algae now, Black beard is it??

I'm just about ready to tear the tank apart and start again. BUT I will try putting in the fert balls first...

[HummingBird]

How many watts of light do you have in the swords tank, and how big's the tank?

[Southerrrngirrl]

Tank is an AR850 thats like 150ish litres 84W x 44D x 59H cm

the bulbs in the tank are 2 x 25W 10000K and 1 x 20W 15000K.

[HummingBird]

It might just be a case of not enough light. My chain swords didn't go too well till I got another 30W on my 3ft (90W in total) and it's a lot shorter than yours.

[Southerrrngirrl]

Ok, well the bulbs are probably getting near due for replacement anyway so.. will get bigger watt lights.

[alanmin4304]

590mm is a tall tank and the light will possibly be OK for plants near the surface but will not be enough for plants at the bottom. If you increase the light and time that it is on you will need to make sure you are not using light that will encourage algae. I find daylight 6500K lights OK. The Flourish Excel works for me but it takes a while. I leave the lights as normal and only use normal dose with a 50% water change weekly to strip the nutrient. My tanks are heavily planted and lightly stocked with fish that are not heavily fed. You want to strip the nutrient with water changes and plant growth. The flourish has an inhibiting effect on algae as well. It is a bit of a catch 22 as you remove the flourish with water changes as well and that brings out my Scottish heritage.

[Faran]

I believe the dimensions include the hood/light/filter. A AR850 is only 44cm tall. From the Aqua One Website - 84W x 58H x 44D cm 165 L, Lighting - 2 x 30" 25W, 1 x 23.5" 20W - which means the lighting is decent at 70W. You really can't go with higher wattage bulbs, just get better quality bulbs. Sadly enough, the LFS is the only place to find 25W bulbs, so they're going to be pricey at $25-$35 each. A $8 20W bulb can be found at any light shop, just ask for 6500 kelvin or "daylight" bulbs.

Aqua One make decent units, but a wee bit low on the lighting. Change those bulbs and try very hard to get proper 6500K lights and you should see improvement from the plants.

[Southerrrngirrl]

So what brand is a good quality bulb then??

[Faran]

For the 25W bulbs you'll need to buy whatever the LFS has available. If you have a chain store LFS you'll usually find a better range of available bulbs than a smaller pet shop. Animates have Arcadia bulbs which are specialists in aquatic lighting and have a good range of bulbs. As for the 20W, you can buy at the same time or save a bit by going to the local sparky outlet. Philips 865 or 965 are the way to go, with the 965 generally being twice the price of the 865s. I use 865s on many tanks and find them very suitable.

[whetu]

It is a bit of a catch 22 as you remove the flourish with water changes as well and that brings out my Scottish heritage.

My scottish heritage tells me to use the water from my water changes on the garden. :lol: I'm with you Alan, it's hard to see all those lovely nutrients go down the drain.

PS Alan and B&K I'm always in awe of your knowledge and your willingness to help Good on you and all the other helpful people on this site.

[HummingBird]

According to the seachem website though, flourish excel is only "active" for 24 hours anyways.

[whetu]

The pot and rock wool should be carefully removed and the plant put into the media in the tank with a JBL ball under it.

Just to go waaaay back to the beginning of this thread, when you're removing the rock wool from around the roots of your plants, do it carefully so you don't break the roots. Sometimes the roots are growing well into the wool and it's hard to get them out. In that case you should cut the roots with a sharp pair of scissors rather than breaking them off.

Whenever I'm re-planting plants that have an established root system, I cut the roots off to within about 3cm of where they join the plant stem. Then I cut the top of the plant down too - if it's a stem plant I cut it down to the first set of strong, healthy leaves. If it's a plant where the leaves grow straight out of the crown, I cut the leaves in half! Makes the plant look funny for a while, but makes it much easier to re-plant and I find it recovers from the shock of replanting much faster.

Thanks to the Yates Garden Guide for this tip. They recommend it for transplanting plants like flax that have long leaves.

[Faran]

Aww shucks , thanks whetu