Pies Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Q - Other than selling product how can you say the shops 'support' the hobby? I mean they make margin on everything they sell, its a business, I doubt they are in it to break even or loose money so people like me can enjoy the hobby. It comes back to why there is so much bitching and drama on this site. Its a business, people are protecting their patch and their revenue streams. Doest the guy who owns Jansens (Rolph Jansen?) drive a Rolls Royce? He should be thanking us for our support Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneo Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Hey dogmatix why isnt there a marine section at jansens silverdale? they got heaps of space and shoppers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tang Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 believe me there is no such thing nowdays as loyalty, if you believe that then you have had a lucky run so far ,it took me 45yrs to learn that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Q - Other than selling product how can you say the shops 'support' the hobby? I mean they make margin on everything they sell, its a business, I doubt they are in it to break even or loose money so people like me can enjoy the hobby. It comes back to why there is so much bitching and drama on this site. Its a business, people are protecting their patch and their revenue streams. Doest the guy who owns Jansens (Rolph Jansen?) drive a Rolls Royce? He should be thanking us for our support Pie I am constantly fighting to keep the marines, vs its expense etc (honest) No rolls Someone like Fay is a great example, she buys alot of her livestock from us cuz she prefers the selsction etc, but buys all her dry good from down the road we will allways give her the best deal and advice we can no matter where any of whatever she gets is coming from (soz Fay) and i know down the road looks after her better than we can. We constantly get ppl in for advice and then they shop else where that is what i am talking about, it doesnt bother myself and steven because we know we are doing the absolute best we can to promote the hobby and keep the consumer and livestock happy. No marines at silverdale as we want to keep the level of advice and service (mostly advice) standard marines are just too specialised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 believe me there is no such thing nowdays as loyalty, if you believe that then you have had a lucky run so far ,it took me 45yrs to learn that I think thats a bit cynical, for example I use the same bike shops as pies, its a family business, the grandmother and grand children all work there they looked after us from day one. I often go in there just needing a seal or bolt and they just give them to me, if im getting a bigger part, like the gear lever I got last week and I'm not sure what one I need they let me pay for one and take a selection and bring back what I dont use, thats what service is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I think we all pretty much agree. Service is a valuable comodity if you value it. My Yellow Tang came from Jansens 3 kings, sold to me by Ben many years ago. At the time I think it was $189.00. Hollywood just around the corner had Yellow tangs for $165.00. I went to Jansens, then to Hollywoods, then back to Jansens and brought my fish before I caught my flight. While there I also enquired as to the price of some light bulbs (MH 250watt DE). I went home and organsed them through Reef to save myself a few hundred dollars. To be honest, I couldn't get a Yellow Tang from anywhere else, so thats where I brought it, but I brought the best one from a shop who made me feel good about it, even thought it cost $25 more than a place 5 mins up the road. An example where price didn't win. When I went to buy bulbs, it was different I knew exactly what I wanted, and price was my only concern, nothing Jansens could have done other than matched (or come very close while I was physically there) it would have had me purchasing from them. No amount of good will or good service could have changed that. believe me there is no such thing nowdays as loyalty, if you believe that then you have had a lucky run so far ,it took me 45yrs to learn that I work for a large company, over 2000 staff, we are very successful. We concentrate (and by this I mean we spend time and money) of winning customer loyalty, not just customer satisfaction, loyalty. We have customers we will keep for life, or if we do loose them it will be at our own hand. Suphews example above is a good one. He is about to get some expensive work done on his bike, over $500, and recently purchased over $500 worth of stuff (as did I & as did another Friend). There are a dozen places in Wellington we could go, several closer to our homes and work. We all went to our 'local' and brought this gear, I don't want to speak for Suphew or Chris, but I never compared price or anything else. I know they charge me what they think is fair, I've never felt anything but happy. So I say 'get me a piston, rings, big end bearing, mc5 rear tyre and a seat cover' and thats it. I walk in the following week and square up my bill. Good for me, easy for them. Win win. I could have gone online for Piston/Rings for example, saved approx 50% ($150 kiwi vs $300 kiwi), but didn't. Not sure why, just didn't feel right to not give them 1st option. Brands would have been the same. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 the service i receive from Ben is top notch, i don't care if i could get the items up the road cheaper (no excuse to charge me more bro )because i find the staff up the road rude and unhelpful, i once needed to use the toilet while in HFF, the guy said that there was a public toilet at the end of the street in the park, this as i was handing him my eftpos card to purchase a large amount of live stock, needless to say i left him and the bags sitting on the counter and went to Jansen's where the toilet was available and spent the money there. i now consider Ben a friend and will shop in Jansen's regardless of what the owner drives (esp considering i would rather have my car :lol: ) if Ben can do me a coral for $80 and i like it i will buy it, if its $150 and i like it, same deal. Hff have only received my business twice sine the toilet issue, both times i needed the item asap and had no other option. having said that, i spoke to Dave the owner on the phone recently for some advice and he was great, very helpful. at the end of the day i agree with pies, i put my money where i find the service that i expect, Ben delivers on service and i shop there, if nothing else i will remain a long term customer and friend of Ben's. as pies said, sometimes money dose not compare to the having it now factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 It tend to agree with service being a strong reason for shopping at the same place(s) all the time. I've visited both shops in the 3 Kings area and bought different things from each one on the same visit. One had a particular fish of one type and the other had a different fish but neither had everything I was looking for. Between them I got what I wanted. They're both great stores, each with their own good and bad points. I believe it's possible to be loyal to more than one shop, especially if there are certain areas each is better at. At the end of the day, why do we keep going back to the same places. There's only a few shops I visit when I go to Auckland as it takes to long to visit them all. It's pretty easy to work out which are the best (including the best service) and that's where you tend to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 The thing for me is that its the shops that are working there best 7 days a week to get ppl into this hobby (working hard maintenance etc) The importers do a great service for the hobby we'd be stuffed without them, but they only do it part time, they have full time jobs remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 All tru & fair points but Ben, How many days do you work at Jansens a week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I work there 4 days a week and steven who manages the entire fish room plus has excellent marine knowledge works 5-6 days a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 The thing for me is that its the shops that are working there best 7 days a week to get ppl into this hobby (working hard maintenance etc) The importers do a great service for the hobby we'd be stuffed without them, but they only do it part time, they have full time jobs remember. I would put it to you that the motivation for being open 7 days a week is to make money, no other reason. Getting people into the hobby means getting people to spend money on the hobby. They are not doing this out of the kindness of their own heart, they do it to get our cash (nothing wrong with that, they are a shop, its their job by definition, but don't pretend its anything but a way to increase revenue). Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Yes but, a huge amount of these people are coming into us for advice and buying there goods etc elsewhere, as i said i feel the shops support this hobby the most. My motivation is to sell people good healthy stock and get get cool new livestock in cuz its fun not profitable. I have to fight for the marines each week to keep them going. They could easily be turned into gold fish or trops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 a huge amount of these people are coming into us for advice and buying there goods etc elsewhere how many people are you talking about? 10%, 30% I suspect that hollywoods also say a lot of people ask questions then buy down the road, is it not the nature of the shopping process...... or are you saying that the wholesalers are selling directly to your clients? that would be easy to stop... just do not buy fish/coral off that particular wholesaler... or import yourselves..... I CANNOT believe that you are not capable of importing yourselfs.... hell you are "giving the newbies advice" do you not have the knowledge or is it a lack of capital? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Werent you planning on importing livestock ? Is it just too expensive ? Its just as cheap to buy from the wholsaler rather than set up then employ some one to look after it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 or import yourselves..... I CANNOT believe that you are not capable of importing yourselfs.... hell you are "giving the newbies advice" do you not have the knowledge or is it a lack of capital? What makes you think at all that we are not capable ? Umm im pretty sure we have the knowledge, Its just not worth the time effort and money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I was and still are considering it... I have been a little busy racing and setting up a crusing yacht. I am planning to go up to the islands next year and have been working on getting an onboard dive compressor setup correctly etc and have not had a huge amount of spare time to setup marine fish import. I have never planned to try and break into the market and dominate it, rather import for myself and a small select group of clients. I have however done the budget for the site and all equipment, I have all the pumps and glass and plumbling pieces ready to go, its just time to build the site..... sure its cheaper to buy from a wholesaler but is it about the journey or the destination? I could just fly to fiji and go on a commercial dive boat cheaper then sailing up myself... but would i ever achieve the same satisfaction? For you guys however I do not understand it, its your business and your suppliers seem (from the undercurrent here) to be %6&*@(.Z@ you..... not controlling your supply chain is commercial suicide. I do not see why you could not import for your retail side AND sell on trademe with a 20-30% discount to retail via a different front company.... own the market both ways and which ever grows build it further.... mate, no offence but I can see why you work their rather then own it. You have so many options! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Its just not worth the time effort and money ok now we are getting to the underlying truth of the matter.... all the real coin is made in retail! the profits are not shared with the importers... and the importers have to sell direct to try and subsidise their business and to sell the stock that is not cherry picked by the trade.... in being forced to do so they form relationships with your clients... and low and behold they start selling direct...... suply chain - CONTROL IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 ok now we are getting to the underlying truth of the matter.... all the real coin is made in retail! the profits are not shared with the importers... suply chain - CONTROL IT Haha not quite i got sent a large fresh water wholseale cost list by accident they do better than the shops going from there mark up as it is, without increasing the prices when selling direct. And i imagine marines to be no different. ALSO PLEASE DO NOT CHANGE what has been written by someone when you QUOTE them, even if it is just making a word bolder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I have to fight for the marines each week to keep them going. They could easily be turned into gold fish or trops with this being the case, do you really think the owners of the store are going to say, "yeah lets throw another few tousand into our marine and employ more staff to look after the QT, then pay maf to inspect them, i dont think so. it dose make sense in a way, to start your own import and retail, this is what wonder world in rotorua are talking of doing, im not sure how far along they are though. another side to import retail, would be selection, if i did this i wouldnt expect any of the importers to support my business by allowing me to buy from them as well as import (would you supply your competetor?), so the selection of fish and coral will be limited by where your import came from this round, more selection is what we want, why make moves to somewhat limit this? also i cant see how import retail will solve the current situation? selling direct from wholesale will still be cheaper than the shops, shops have leases power wages theft......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I suspect the current wholesalers who sell direct still prefer to sell in bulk to shops rather then operate quassi retail from there basement. but they could still decide to cherry pick the market....... both reef and jetski are savvy biz operators tho... neither are charities. in christchurch how many of the shops are also importers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Off the top of my head 3 out of 4 shops are importers aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted December 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I bet its a lot harder in CHCH to buy direct from an importer...... but from memory the prices are often a little lower then AKL as well..... do they only sell there own imports or sell to each other as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwan Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 I've heard that some of the chch importers/shops supply some of the Auckland shops with imports; not sure what types though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krama Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Oh boy, :bounce: Isnt it wonderful how different we all are.... Hmm, I like the idea of becoming an importer too, sounds like an interesting learning experience. I would be interested in how it goes RnB... When are you off to the islands? I wonder if you were importing, you could make the whole trip tax deductable.. , then I would be into it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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