Newbie seeks help

[Maelgrim]

Yes its another Newbie help thread. But you all seem pretty accomodating so hope you don't mind.

Basically I am wanting to start a Marine Tank (Family Christmas present). Now I have been reading a ton of material and have read a huge number of ways of doing things and I think I have an idea as to what I am going to do. So below I will outline the Plan

(which you can pull apart) and pose a few questions I am struggling with.

The TANK:

Looking at a 220Litre (about 980 wide, 680 tall) basically equates to a 55 Gallon which is useful when reading all the US articles out there. I realise bigger is better but this is realistically as big as I can go. Will have a SUMP and am looking at a Skimmer like the reef Octpus (maybe a Deltec MC500 if I can get one cheap enough). It seems like the majority of People are running Berlin style Tanks (Big Skimmer & Live rock), so that is what I will try and emulate. Lighting will be cheapest I can get to support Bio load below. With a view to oneday get a Metal Hallide when I fancy Invertibrates etc Will go with a 1inch substrate (looks nice).

The PLAN:

Phase1

The Plan is to start with Fish & Live rock.

The complete Fish load being

1 Clown

4 Blue Chromis (is this amount ok?)

1 Mandarin (realise can be tricky and must be added to well established tank)

Phase2

Get a Quarantine / hospital tank in place. Ideally before Mandarin goes in.

Phase3

Look to upgrade lighting and add some Corals and maybe a shrimp.

QUESTIONS

1. Where do I get Live rock ? I take it that sticking in any old rock and having it pass the cycling phase does not turn it into Live rock (I would assume you need at least 1 Live rock before you create/seed more) - I'm a bit confused on this as you may have guessed.

2. Is the Fish load ok? I have read 1 inch of fish per 5 gallons. So assuming I have a 55 Gallon tank (actually a tad more) - that would means 11 inch of fish. I am a bit concerned about the Chromis as I have read they can get up to 5 inches. I assumed Clown = 3inch, Mandarin = 2 inch, Chromis = 2inch (Total = 13inch). Maybe I drop the clown. Also do I include the SUMP volume in these calculations ?

3. Lighting, realistically what lighting do I need to support the above give the Tank height (680) ?

4. Good place to collect seawater in Auckland ?

5. Sunlight might be an issue - one corner of the tank may get direct light during the afternoon. Would a UV film tint work ? (like you can get done on house windows etc). Don't want to paint the side, so might put up a mini curtain / shade cloth to shield the tank.

6. Any major bits of equipment missed ?

Any answers / comment / critique would be greatly appreciated

Regards

Michael

[Ira]

Why would the sunlight be a problem? The more the better as long as the tank doesn't overheat! Sunlight's the best lighting you can get. It's free!

[lduncan]

First off, by the sound of it, you have done a lot of reading already, which is good!

1. Where do I get Live rock ? I take it that sticking in any old rock and having it pass the cycling phase does not turn it into Live rock (I would assume you need at least 1 Live rock before you create/seed more) - I'm a bit confused on this as you may have guessed.

A lot of "live" rock comes in dry form (which I prefer, no surprise nasty hitchhiker critters) You can take this dry stuff and chuck it in a bucket of saltwater and give it time, and it will cycle. There's not a lot you can do to speed this up, (bacteria cultures won't help ;-) , seeding with cycled live rock won't help speed things up much either)

Where to get it? The Auckland guys will have more idea of where to get it up there.

2. Is the Fish load ok?

That all depends on the filtration system you have in place. If you go with a small skimmer, then you could have problems. Get a good skimmer, and you shouldn't have many problems.

I have read 1 inch of fish per 5 gallons. So assuming I have a 55 Gallon tank (actually a tad more) - that would means 11 inch of fish. I am a bit concerned about the Chromis as I have read they can get up to 5 inches. I assumed Clown = 3inch, Mandarin = 2 inch, Chromis = 2inch (Total = 13inch). Maybe I drop the clown. Also do I include the SUMP volume in these calculations ?

Don't worry about that, it's more or less rubbish. How many fish you have for the most part is determined by how clean you can keep the water. (There are other factors when it comes to certain type of fish, needing a minimium tank size to feel comfortable, but that's not an issue with the fish you are looking at)

3. Lighting, realistically what lighting do I need to support the above give the Tank height (680) ?

A couple of T5's - that way you can add a metal halide in the future, and the T5's will still be useful.

4. Good place to collect seawater in Auckland ?

I'm not a fan of using NSW, but the takapuna boat ramp seems a popular place up there

5. Sunlight might be an issue - one corner of the tank may get direct light during the afternoon. Would a UV film tint work ? (like you can get done on house windows etc). Don't want to paint the side, so might put up a mini curtain / shade cloth to shield the tank.

Best to keep the water clean, then you won't have problems with algae, if that's what you're worried about here.

Layton

[Maelgrim]

Hi Guys - thanks for the input

Yeah it was the Algae growth I was worried about. It doesn't sound like I will have to worry to much if the water is kept in good shape.

I wonder why you don't see any Tanks setup in fron of windows for loads of free natural light.

Yeah ive been getting headaches from all the reading attempting to put the Marine Jigsaw togeather (worse than studying for Cisco exams).

I'll take a look at the T5's and ask my LFS (Hollywood) if they can supply the dry live rock you mention.

Does anyone have a school of Chromis - what would you recomend for a minimum number ?

[lduncan]

worse than studying for Cisco exams

:lol:

Does anyone have a school of Chromis - what would you recomend for a minimum number ?

I prefer the look of odd numbers 5 or 7 maybe?

[puttputt]

Yep, hollywood or Jansens stock dead rock. You can buy it buy the piece or in 20Kg bags. Price around $10-$12 per Kg.

Suggest you water blast the worst of the dead material off it, sponge and weed, still leaves plenty of dead material to cycle.

[Maelgrim]

Maybe I get a mix of live and some stuff from the LFS.

Everything seems to be coming togeather in my head now

Almost time for some purchases.

Any idea what T5 lighting would cost for 980w x 680h x 400 ?

[wasp]

Everything you say is right on track. For water collection it depends where you live, but if you are handy to North Shore, Takapuna boat ramp is good, when conditions are right obviously.

The chromis will not "school" in your tank, as it is too small to see this behaviour. They are pretty fish though.

Might I suggest you get two clowns? Clowns like to live in a family and will be happier like this. As things progress you may end up getting an anemone and they could live in it.

[RnB]

was diving with a school of about 200 chromis recently was way cool

[Maelgrim]

So the Blue Chromis are for my Wife (Pretty Colour)

The Nemo /s are for my daughter (will look at 2 now)

and the Mandarin for me (unfortunately probably ages away)

I live in Albany (10 min walk to Hollywood). Takapuna is not to far off, anyone used Browns Bay ?

Do you need to "do" anything to NSW before sticking it in ? (I guess warming it up)

[lduncan]

When you say blue chromis, are you talking about the atlantic blue chromis:

or the common old green chromis:

The atlantic blues are REALLY nice fish.

Layton

[puttputt]

Wow, finally we see photos of your tank Layton

Very Impressive.

[Maelgrim]

Actually I thinks its the Green Chromis my Wife likes

[wasp]

Wow, finally we see photos of your tank Layton

Very Impressive.

Finally we find out what happened to those big acros from his origional tank! 8)

[Ira]

The Nemo /s are for my daughter (will look at 2 now)

That's it! You're no longer allowed to have a marine tank! :evil:

[TM]

Hi Guys - thanks for the input

Yeah it was the Algae growth I was worried about. It doesn't sound like I will have to worry to much if the water is kept in good shape.

I wonder why you don't see any Tanks setup in fron of windows for loads of free natural light.

Yeah ive been getting headaches from all the reading attempting to put the Marine Jigsaw togeather (worse than studying for Cisco exams).

I'll take a look at the T5's and ask my LFS (Hollywood) if they can supply the dry live rock you mention.

Does anyone have a school of Chromis - what would you recomend for a minimum number ?

I have 9 chromis in my tanks, they sort of school.

I have sunlight that comes into my tank in the summer evenings, no problems with algae.

[Maelgrim]

That's it! You're no longer allowed to have a marine tank! :evil:

Would Jellyman be better

[suphew]

Unless you have long arms 680 is getting pretty deep you will have problems reaching stuff on the bottom at the back, also it will mean more powerful lights when you start getting into corals (which sooner or later you will).

Spend you $ on a the best skimmer you can afford, I dont think you will find anyone here who hasn't either upgraded to a bigger tank or isn't planning on doing it soon. Almost all of us have made the mistake of going cheap on the skimmer and having to replace it or getting one that was just ok then having to upgrade with the tank upgrade.

Lighting isn't important until you start getting corals I wouldn't go over board now, and whatever you choose to do make sure you will still be able to use them when you upgrade.

NSW can go straight in the tank, I don't warm it and change 15+% at a time. However the salinity is a little high in NZ so it helps to add about 10% fresh water to it.

Spend the money on a refractometer (sp?) (approx $80) the floating etc ones are crap.

If your just keeping fish you can put in dry 'live rock' and let it cycle for a month or so, before adding fish, they wil handle it ok. They can handle far higher levels of nitrates than corals so the cycle to get it a point for keeping fish is very similar to fresh water. Also I notice jetskisteve has some mature live rock for sale, it will cost you round the same as buying dry live rock form your LFS but is far better.

[Maelgrim]

Yeah the depth has been a concern (especially the cost in lights). However I think a deep tank looks fantastic - so i'll go with my gut and learn the hard way.

I was thinking maybe starting with Fluro then upgrading to T5s at a later date to support Corals etc . One advantage I figured with a deeper tank is that I could potentially have Corals that favour different light intenisties at different levels.

The refractometer looks great. Do people also use the electronic PH testers ?

@TM 9 Chromis sounds great (My Wife would love), but I won't be able to fit that many - so prob 4 - 5. Good to here you don't have any issues with direct sunlight.

[lduncan]

Do people also use the electronic PH testers ?

Some do, but to be honest, pH is one of the least important tests to do.

If you have reasonable alkalinity, and good aeration, then you generally won't have an issue with pH.

Layton

[suphew]

Some do, but to be honest, pH is one of the least important tests to do.

If you have reasonable alkalinity, and good aeration, then you generally won't have an issue with pH.

Layton

I loved mine for about the first week, once I discovered that the PH changed so much during the day I realised it was a bit of a waste of time having it

[wasp]

I'm a bit different on that, I do use an electronic pH tester & now consider it quite an important tool.

I know the overwhelming majority will dissagree though. . It's just because I now control pH fairly carefully, having discovered how much effect it has on growth.

But when starting out Maelgrim don't worry about it, do what the others have said & just get alkalinity right, keep the tank as aerated as possible, and that will keep the pH in reasonable range.