Should I just opt for a 250L saltwater tank???

[IOU1]

I would first like to thank everyone for all their help on ideas for my planted freshwater tank. But, researching the costs invloved of CO2, plants, lighting etc I'm wondering if I might as well set this 250L tank up as saltwater and fully plant my 90L tropical tank instead.

I know you have probably got a similar thread many times before, but whats what??? :lol:

I have a standard tank and stand that was used for tropical, two eheim filters, standard freshwater light tubes and a couple of heaters.

I only want the basics :lol: A skimmer (preferably as compact as possible), just a low maintenance tank so I won't be making excuses of maintaining the fish tank over schoolwork and find myself failing the year :-?, and any other piece of equipment required for a marine tank.

I have a huge book on setting up a marine tank but won't have the time to read it.

I am interested in a few bits and pieces on trademe, and was wondering of going into pajama cardinals, followed by banggai cardinals as experience continues.

So a few questions,

What do I look into first?

What salt is the best value for money and how much?

Will I have time to allow myself to continue passing school? :lol:

How are cardinals?

Is it worth it?

etc,etc,etc

I have had tropical for many years now and want something different. Do you have any words of help or selling/ know of anyone selling the things I need, skimmer etc? Oh, and I don't want holes drilled in my tank if I can help it, incase saltwater doesn't work out and I decide to go back to freshwater.

How much upkeep is involved? I think 10% water change a week is enough, how much salt will I use and is this an huge expense I can't afford? (I don't live close to the sea )

Thanks in advance

(If it helps my tank measures roughly 152cmL x 38cmW x 47cmH)

I would prefer to buy seeded sand and rock as I know I will want some fish ASAP and therefore only need to cycle the tank for 3-10 days according to the book.

[suphew]

So many questions!

250l is a good size to start out with.

Unfortunately with salt water simple normally doesn't equal low maintenance. A lot of the complex gear used is to save having to do maintenance, like water changes, dosing of additives etc.

There are a lot of good HOB skimmers around that would be ideal for what you want to do.

Cardinals are great fish, I have a school of 13 pyjama cardinals in my tank. However you can't mix pyjama and bangii cardinals, they will fight to the death.

"what do I look into first?" haha everthing, the best way (and maybe only) to success is to do plently of research first, you will also save a lot of money doing this.

"What is the best salt...?" IMO the salt in the sea, why pay for something you are surrounded by. The box of salt I got before I realised I could use seawater cost me $120 to make up about 600l, you can do the maths yourself to see what it's going to cost you to do your water changes.

"Will I have time...?" No because even once you get the maintenance down to a good level you will spend all your time looking at the tank.

"How are cardinals?" great see above

"Is it worth it?" Yes it sure is, unless I sit down and make the mistake of working out how much time and money I have spent.

The biggest thing you need to decide now is what you want to keep. If its just fish, then it is a bit cheaper, the water doesn't have to be quite as good, lower light is ok, etc.

[steve-s]

Hi IOU1,

You've done the right thing in asking the question, I'm not trying to put you off but I would think carefully about your decision. A few points from your post which raise concerns:

just a low maintenance tank.

I think it could be said that there is probably no such thing as a low maintenance marine tank.

I have a huge book on setting up a marine tank but won't have the time to read it.

I'm not being funny but if you dont have time to read up on the requirements then you wont have the time to maintain the tank.

only need to cycle the tank for 3-10 days according to the book.

Get rid of the book, 3-10 days before adding fish in a marine environment is really not a good idea, very stressful for the fish and that's if they survive.

You may find this a good reference as a starting point:

http://www.masa.asn.au/masawiki/index.php?title=Beginners_Guide

Cheers,

Steve

[chimera]

I think it could be said that there is probably no such thing as a low maintenance marine tank

unless you got a large amount of cash to automate most tasks

[Caryl]

If you find the cost of CO2 too much then you really won't want a marine! Not only are the setup costs higher but running costs are too (unless you have parents happy to pay the much higher power bill - see earlier threads on running costs)

You can have a planted tank without CO2 you know.

[Krama]

if you are looking at marine, I think the first question you should ask is what is my initial budget, and what will be my monthly budget. Being new to marine, it is excellent, but a big hobbie budget is what is needed.

It would be sorry to see you start and then have to give it away due to cost.

mj

[IOU1]

OK, i'm being my average self, doubting every option I don't know what to do.

So many answers.

OK, its not just the cost of the CO2 system its also the plants and the maintenance of the plants, trimming, fertilising, and water changes. The lightbulbs need replacing every six months and I am no underwater gardener :lol:

I will look into the running costs, but as I'm wanting cardinals with little lighting requirements, and having mainly live rock with a few low light corals and mushrooms, this shouldn't be a major issue, It would almost cost the same (heaters are required for both, skimmer replaces filter, salt is an extra If I do the water changes I mention with purchased salt- $240 a year )

Also, depending on how much maintenance is involved, I think I can still cope with school (and work afterward) and maintaining the tank, as I have put NO effort into my work this year at home, rarely complete homework, but still passing so far The only time it would be difficult is about 2 weeks in September, 3 weeks in November, in which i'm sure mum would maintain the tank for me (:-? :lol: )

I am planning on selling a spare tank I have and have some excess cash from selling fish things in the past, so will work out my budget.

Could someone please give me an indication of how time consuming on average a tank of this size will require???

This book is about 300 pages of tiny writing, I have red it before, and am skimming through the requirements, but won't be able to read through all the individual corals and fish. :roll:

The book says 3-10 days of cycling if seeded sand and rock have been introduced, after which the tank can be lightly stocked. I would wait longer than this if required.

Thanks Steve for the site link, I will read through it tonight, I do know the real basics but am interested in the detailed information it has.

Can someone please say possible additives required??? Costs???

I was planning on selling the pajama cardinals if I find any banner cardinals.

I'm unfortunately not close to the sea, if that's what you mean, so purchased salt might be my only option, unless I have storage containers at the back of the house I could take to a beach if we are ever going there. The reason for the 10% water change (25L) is because the cardinals love this type of clean water, but i'm only wanting a pair of cardinals, and babies if they breed, in this tank, so not much waste will be produced.

You might be beginning to loose hope in me :lol: , I can never make up my mind on anything, but basically thought of a simple, live rock based, low light aquarium with a few cardinals.

Also how have you found feeding them, I have heard they are difficuilt and not easily accepting of foods.

Thanks for all your time in giving this information, and as you say, I would hate to begin in marine, not afford it, and come out worse off.

I will think about my options tomorrow and research it more. Thanks again for all your help :bounce: :bounce:

[evilknieval69]

Hey man

Im about the same age as you i think, im in the 6th form at school at the moment.

I used to have 6 tanks running and a couple emptys ( :lol: ) but i just did not have the time to look after them all properly, SO, i sold up a few things. I sold the turtles And still need to sell their tank and stand (anybody want a turtle tank and stand??) I sold my whole community of fish which were in a 2 foot tank, and all my guppies which were in a 120L tank which i still need to sell (anybody want a 120L tank??) Now i am just left with 3 tanks, my big planted tank (plants are what i am keeping the tank for (I love them)), a 30L Bristlenose breeding tank and the original 2 foot comunity tank, i am just setting up as a marine tank.

I am in the process of starting the tank right now (you may have seen my thread). It is only a small tank (60 L) but i am hoping to keep a quite nice, succesful tank. I am going to do pretty much what you are thinking of, Some nice low-light mushrooms, and corals, plus a couple fish (probably 2 percula clowns but possibly cardinals...) and i would also like a shrimp but not till the tank is setup and working well.

In my opinion, it would be alot cheaper for you to setup the 250L tank into a planted tank, BUT, it wouldnt be as much of a challenge, and depending on what you like, may not be as satisfying as a marine tank.

So what i think you should make your decision on is whether you want a challenging tank, or a not so challenging tank, a high tech tank, or a low tech tank, a freshwater, or saltwater tank. It is just what you want, but also relies on what kind of $$$ you have. I reckon, a 250L marine tank would cost more to start up and look after, than a freshwater planted tank.

Alot of people on these forums are very nice, and are more than happy to send you plant clippings for a small charge, or alot of the time free. Alot of people have sent me plants free of cost, so i can fill my 240L planted tank. The only thing that has to happen, is when i get the plants growing hard, I send them on to beginners free of charge. if everyone does this, it turns into a big cycle, and everyone is happy......

So if you want a bit of a challenge, and are prepared to spend a little more $$, go for the marine, but if you want a little bit easier, and a little bit cheaper, IMO, go planted.

Co2 can be done on the cheap, it is not even needed. There are some beautiful planted tanks out there which dont have any co2 systems at all. The cheapest option is DIY co2, but is not very stable, you can also pickup a cheap co2 regulator every now and again on trademe etc. which would be a good start. Ferts for a planted tank can be VERY cheap aswell. You just need to do alot of research to find out what chemicals you need and what dosages you need. Eg. You can buy 1 kg of KNO3 (nitrates) for about $6, 1 kg of K2SO4 (pottassium i think :lol: ) for about $8 and then you just need some trace elements which are easily dosed by using flourish (2 litre bottle for $90)

Once you do the research, you will find cheaper ways to do things, in the end, it is all up to you....

HTH

[evilknieval69]

Forgot some things :lol:

For a marine tank of 250L's The equipment you would need would be:

Tank

Heater

Powerheads (would need several in that size tank)

Skimmer (would need to be quite substantial)

Lighting (would need to be quite substantial aswell)

Rock (at $10KG 'dead' and $15KG 'live' You will need a couple hundred $$ worth)

Sand (optional)

That would be the minimum you will need to be able to keep fish. But for corals etc, you would need a few more things probably.

For a 250L planted tank you will need:

Tank

Heater

Filter (preferably canister)

Substrate (IMO sand is best)

Lighting (for a 250L tank, a double tube light would be alright but a 150 watt Metal halide would be best)

This would be the minimum to keep plants alive and growing (although probably not to their best)

If you wanted a very good planted tank with all the stuff you would need:

Co2 (DIY would be about $5/ month)(pressurized would be cheaper per month and more stable but the startup cost is more)(another alternative with presurized is to buy the soda stream co2 bottle regulator for $75, and use the soda stream co2 bottle, the only downside is that the bottle would run out in about 16 days, so would cost about $8 every fill, ending up about $16 a month)

Ferts (as i said in the other post, would work out around $20 every 9-12 months)

HTH

[IOU1]

Thanks for all the advice.

I'm 5th form this year.

I don't have a great amount of $$$ to spend and am basically only able to afford the amount I get for my 90L fully set up tank, and the few extra filters (all eheim) I have around, so probably can't afford them

Anyway I continue thinking about a freshwater or saltwater fishtank.

I did see your thread and got more info from there too.

Thanks again and good luck with your one you are setting up now

[IOU1]

Ok, I was too late on the auction I was interested in

I might find a slightly smaller tank to go marine in, by the sounds of things a tank my size might be time consuming and expensive

Thanks for all the advice, i'm still not thinking about going marine :bounce:

[IOU1]

Sorry 'I'm still thinking of going marine' :oops: :oops:

[evilknieval69]

Hey man.

Maybe if you did a nano tank sorta like i am doing it would be better. Cos then you dont NEED a skimmer, you just need to do water changes often. Lighting you will only need a couple flouros and rock will be less and powerheads will be less etc.

[suphew]

I would still aim for the bigger tank, the more water you have the easier it is, which is why it its generally recomended to start with at least a 4foot.

Maintenance isn't huge if you can keep your load low, the biggest temptation is to change things all the time, but they run far better if you leave them alone.

Off the top of my head your weekly tasks would be, water change (this would need to be larger at first, but as the tank matures you can cut back a lot on these), cleaning skimmer, fresh water topup daily (you will also need a supply of pure water, tap water is no good), adjusting your water parameters (if your only going to have fish and soft corals this will mostly just be your PH), water tests.

[puttputt]

the biggest temptation is to change things all the time, but they run far better if you leave them alone.

hes talking about you chimera

[chimera]

[IOU1]

Ok I think this is what i'm going to do.

Temporarily set it up as a large tropical or coldwater tank until the christmas holidays. During this time I have a few months to properly cycle the tank and look out for the fish etc, or stick to what I have and set it up better. This means I can always monitor nitrates and it will give me the time to read up and research all what is required. After these holidays hopefully the tank would have matured enough to require less water changes.

Also a quick question

I am thinking of some large storage containers to hold water from the beach in, and will make a trip to Clarks beach (about 25-30mins from us) once or twice yearly. If I collect water would they be alright all year round in these containers or would they go stagnant and need aeration all the time?

Also, how is rain water for top ups?

If my storage of saltwater doesn't work out I might just need to buy the salt from the petstores

Thanks again for all your help :bounce: