JDM Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Jizza you still on zeo or fully stopped now ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 its still running, i have run out of zeobak so cant dose that but still with zeostart and zeofood7. i have the po4 fliudizer running and when the denitrator arrives i will stop with zeo completely, but i might return to it later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 What is nitrate now? Before getting too carried away with the Po4 remover remember you need some phosphate to get rid of the nitrate. The Redfeild ratio hobbyhorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 nitrate now is still 50, just did full tests (sunday is my testing day) po4 is now only a very sligt blue depending on what light its under, basiclly clear so very close to 0.0, wasp can you please link a write up on po4 related to reducing nitrates, seems my fludizer has kicked there butts and i may need to ture it off to let them rise agan? i will search the redfeild ratio now and see what i find but any extra info wold be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 What is nitrate now? Before getting too carried away with the Po4 remover remember you need some phosphate to get rid of the nitrate. The Redfeild ratio hobbyhorse In tiny tiny amounts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Well I don't have a very good knowledge of the redfeild ratio, I will admit that in this department Layton is my superior, I have never bothered to google it. Perhaps Layton could chip in here, he enjoys expounding on this. But in case he does not, the basics of it are, as apply to us reefers, that for nitrate and phosphate reducing organisms to properly function, they need some of both nitrate and phosphate. So, if one or the other is used completely, the other will stop being reduced. Redfeild has formulated this into a specific ratio. However, some reading I did showed that this ratio can vary depending on what specific organism is doing the reducing. Therefore, for me anyway, I do not get particularly hung up on exact ratios and particular numbers, I just bear in mind that a little of both is needed. However we should still target undetectable levels for both with our test kits, as there will still be a little present, it is just when they are well out of whack there may be a problem. One such scenario could occur if a tank with a DSB has a big phosphate level, but no nitrate. The phosphate just can't get reduced. Really that is as much as a typical reefer needs to be aware of, but for those with the time and inclination, further research may be of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Naming The term is named after the American oceanographer Alfred C. Redfield, who first described the ratio in an article in 1934 (Redfield 1934). The Redfield ratio of organic matter is C:Si:N:P = 106:15:16:1 Explanation Redfield described the remarkable congruence between the chemistry of the deep ocean and the chemistry of living things in the surface ocean. Both have N:P ratios of about 16 (atoms to atoms). When nutrients are not limiting, the molar element ratio C:N:P in most phytoplankton is 106:16:1. Redfield thought it wasn't purely coincidental that the vast oceans would have a chemistry perfectly suited to the requirements of living organisms. He considered how the cycles of not just N and P but also C and O could interact to result in this match. Good old wikipedia. I dont think there would be any huge shift for Nitrosococcus from phytoplankton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Feelers can you give the reference for that paper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redfield_ratio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Haha that is supposed to read The term is named after the American oceanographer Alfred C. Redfield, who first described the ratio in an article in 1934 (Redfield 1934). The Redfield ratio of organic matter is C:Si:N:P = 106:15:16:1 Without the smiley inserted for the part. Cool that he did this way back in 1934, thats pretty insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 28, 2006 Report Share Posted November 28, 2006 Yes, thought it rather amazing to go sort out the ratios that were in the various organisms, sounds simple when you read it but must have taken a fair bit of work. Just even thinking of the idea to test for it! But then I'm no scientist. So, the next fascinating question is :- Redfeild found it remarkable that these elements existed in the water in exactly the right ratio as found in, and to sustain, the various life forms. So, is this an ideal ratio for living organisms for some chemical reason, and the water just "happens" to be the same, or have the organisms come to have this ratio, from living in this environment & adapting to it in the most efficient way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I started zeo about 1 month ago and WOW what a change. I have not tested levels but all my problem alge has gone from my sand and the tank is looking the best it ever has. Polop growth ...stunning. I do think my corals are darker or have lost some colour but water is clearer. I used this product on my old tank and was happy. Stopped on my new tank had issuies started again and 1 month later WOW. I was useing Biotim and Biodigest without results and used them as instructed for months. Now I have not tested my water but are going on looks only. Very happy. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 So, is this an ideal ratio for living organisms for some chemical reason, and the water just "happens" to be the same, or have the organisms come to have this ratio, from living in this environment & adapting to it in the most efficient way? Definitly the latter, the sea is probably the most consistant environment of them all, and it's very much in ones interest to fit the chemical mold it makes. Remember that is for marine eco system stability, when you change certain aspects some things are able to make use of it, just like phospherous to algae and rather oddly nitrates; to crown of thorns starfish. Apparently there are waaay more crown-O-thorns stars around because high nitrate levels dramatically increase the survival rates of the free swimming paralarvae /or something. I cant remember where I heard that but it's serious because it turns out pollution not only hurts the corals it helps the starfish which eat loads of corals directly. Those star fish look incredibly sinister! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 boy, he would do well with the nitrate in my tank! just as a side issue, i removed the zeo reactor tonight, so i am not running any zeo products at all now, i will be interested to see how this affects my tank. po4 is now untraceable, but nitrates still 50 as i do not have the denitrator yet. lets see how long it takes for a visiable change from stopping zeo, then we will see how long till i return to zeo.... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 29, 2006 Report Share Posted November 29, 2006 I was useing Biotim and Biodigest without results and used them as instructed for months. Now I have not tested my water but are going on looks only. Very happy. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I'll bet the prodibio did do something, although not nessecarily visible, then zeovit just finished the job. Funny old world though, the way different results happen on different tanks from these products. Bit like they say on the weight lose advertisements "advertised results may vary" :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted December 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Interesting thing also, my purple montipora used to be a lovely purple in my old tank, which had undetectable nitrate. But since being in the new tank it has been a solid brown. However over the last few days I've noticed a slight tinge of purple creeping in! May this trend continue . hows taht monti looking now wasp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Not any further improvement but still a little purple if you look for it. Anyhow i'll just keep on focusing on water quality & see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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